User talk:LTL

Welcome, thank you for joining! I do apologize for mistaking you for being uninterested--like i said, I feel it can easily be misunderstood why another zelda wiki & have to explain to others what makes this one different. Thanks for sticking around. Whenever there's Zelda-type discussions to be done, you can come on Triforce Wiki. I'm considering on starting up a new logo for the wiki, since the generic triforce is just a placeholder for now. Otherwise, the style here is very similar to Super Mario Wiki, which is intentional.Results May Vary (talk) 00:13, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I can sometimes be somewhat socially awkward (and use lots of words), since i tend to go in-depth with my speech. You & Doc have been inspirations to me in that I try and adapt your naming hierarchy across wikis, and being careful not to use fan terms. Just wanted to let you know :) Results May Vary (talk) 00:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Thanks for the kind words! LTL (talk) 14:13, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Degu/Dig
Lots of other languages seem to translate it as "big." It wouldn't surprise me if it's a combined corruption of "Deka" and "Big." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I had considered having them as part of a glossary, like Stal-, Geld-, Mold-, and -fos, which I know NIWA Zeldawiki does something similar. However, if that were done, we'd obviously want to keep speculation as to the in-universe reason for the root words existing (like claiming they're Hylian or something) to nil. As for Degrock, that may have not been in reference to Jeakrock/Zeeklock, but just boulders/rocks in general. The heads all break out from a huge boulder in the middle, after all.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:26, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Futubasha
Do you have any idea if the Futabasha guide for Zelda II was licensed by Nintendo? I ask because I'm curious if the artwork has any degree of officiality to it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Acheman
Do you know if "Acheman" has a valid English source for the name, or is it just "this is a logical transliteration based off all evidence?" I couldn't find it in the manual, but I suppose Nintendo Power may have mentioned it? I don't think that Devil World thing counts. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:24, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah in addition, what should we call the Princess Zelda from Zelda II, since she is different from the one of the first game? Results May Vary (talk) 12:04, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we could just split same-name characters for each game where we know that they are different characters. For example, Link from OOT and MM would be merged to Link (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time) as we know for a fact that they are the same character, while Link from Spirit Tracks would be separate from the Link from WW and PH. If this would happen there would also be a general page to direct users to the page for the character in each game, using the main template. This would apply to Zelda, so the Zelda II Zelda would have a separate page called Princess Zelda (Zelda II: The Adventure of Link) as we know she is a different character from the Zelda in the first game. Doomhiker (talk) 12:59, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Nah, different reincarnations of Link should all share a page so we don't get a clusterf***. They're the same in spirit. The exceptions would be alternate forms, as well as Young and Toon Links in spinoff games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:43, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm with Doc. Splitting character incarnations would be confusing, not to mention it can be subject to change depending on who is telling the legend; for instance, the Zelda from Zelda II is sometimes conflated with the Zelda from the first game as seen in Nintendo Power and the Valiant Comics, and the website version of the timeline implies that the Link from Oracle of Seasons & Oracle of Ages is separate from A Link to the Past & Link's Awakening (as opposed to Hyrule Historia, which states that it is the same Link and has a more logical placement to suit that notion). LTL (talk) 16:07, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The Zelda series is really confusing with naming in general, correct? Results May Vary (talk) 16:19, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

The confounding case of Dark Black Shadow Link's shadow
So how do you think we should handle the Dark Link/Shadow Link/Black Link/Link's shadow situation? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:35, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * OK. I know there is some variance with the JP names as well, and given there's the similar case of Oyablin vs Bossblin (ie two similarly-named entities, though with them there's not a lot consistent between any of the incarnations), I figure we might try to get a complete view on that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:21, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Speaking of Oyablin/Bossblin, Zeldawiki claims that HWL's Big Blin, Stone Blin, and "Boss Blin" character are all Oyablin. Do you know if this is true or not? It'd have made sense to me to use the other name for Stone Blin/ "Boss Blin" as a bit of a continuity gag and actual differentiation.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:15, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Timeline redirect
Do you think it was a good idea to redirect Timeline to Hyrule Hystoria? Maybe add a "redirectshere" if there's another thing that discusses timeline? Results May Vary (talk) 19:25, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Lost Hills
Don't mean to be a bother coming at you with so many questions, but do you know the Japanese name of the Lost Hills from the first game? Because Hebra's Hill from FSA is suspiciously similar, right down to the rocks. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. Upon realizing that Castor Wilds is actually Tabantha Wilds (with Tabantha also being a group of locations in BotW) I've been wondering if various locations are the same as each other, but lost in translation. I'm especially curious if Tabantha Frontier specifically is the same as Castor Wilds. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:33, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Eyegore Statue
What is your opinion on how we should handle Eyegore vs. Eyegore Statue? I figured we could lump them together like Gamepedia Zeldawiki does, or have Eyegore Statue refer to the TMC one (and presumably the FS one, and potentially the other Eyegore-based statues with roles), but the FSA one presents a problem, as it more closely resembles the statues, but acts lik the LttP one. Thoughts? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:36, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The watching ones that are also key to solving the linked dungeon in the Oracle games are animate to a degree, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:47, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Those little decorative things that constantly watch Link and appear in most dungeons. They only take up one 16x16 tile. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Potentially. They have the right "ears" to be Eyegore-based, and there was also another in LA that had the "shoot the eye" puzzle. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm an idiot, I remembered that special ones appeared in the Ganon dungeon for combined Oracles (where Link has to travel the way none of them point to in ersatz Lost Woods style), but I forgot that they are given a name there. They are referred to as "Eyes of Deceit," though this clearly links to their special behavior. Other ones in the game simply have their eye follow Link as he walk by, some (with darker colors) have their eyes closed and can occasionally be pushed for puzzles, and at least open-eyed one is a "shoot the eye" puzzle. They come in numerous colors throughout, which is used for a puzzle in the case of the pushable ones. By the way, if the top banner on the former is of any indication, Zeldawiki is considering merging with Zeldapedia. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Link gets warned about them before going to the dungeon. The fact that the now-Gamepedia Zeldawiki never bothered mentioning them made figuring that puzzle out a bit of a pain for little me.... Anyways yeah I figured that would make replacing them at NIWA pretty much a given since everything's all going downhill even more than I thought it could. It would have been better for them to have not joined Gamepedia, even if their lack of funding would have killed it. Better to die a hero than live long enough to become the villain, you know? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:20, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Anyways, from what you've told me, I think the main immobile Eyegore statue article title should either be "Eye of Deceit" or "Eye statue," which do you think would work better? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:56, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I've played through both ways, and I think I recall it in both, though I could be wrong, as it's been a few years. It might be that different advice was given in the other. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:30, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Fire Bago-Bago
I assumed as much. Since I don't trust Nintendo Dream's translation as far as a Deku Scrub can throw Biggoron, I'd just go with either what the JP version of the book calls them, or keep them merged. I'm pretty sure they have the same palette, just appearing different for the same reason as the "purple" Moas and Aches (ie color value differences simply based on location involving intended visibility of outlines in most cases). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:43, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Source tier
Mariowiki's source tier lists enclosed manuals and in-game at the same level. "Skeleton knight" seemed more of a generic thing Zelda said to me, sorta like how Princess Toadstool/Peach calls the boos in SMB3 "ghosts." Granted, I can't really remember the capitalization situation to a T... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:53, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * While that makes sense for current games, in older games, there was often inconsistencies that could be traced to technical reasons or just literal translation. What's with the second name in the Niol box? Was that in game in the JP version? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:18, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Since the equivalent Japanese name was clearly intended as a generic term (particularly with Master Stalfos's JP name), I'm inclined to believe "Skeleton Knight" was a literal translation of the line and nothing more. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I do not know. The only game-specific guidebook I own is for Tri Force Heroes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:06, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * They have a badge in Nintendo Badge Arcade it would seem. I do not know where to find out what it is named there, if anything. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:21, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It seems they're going to appear in Cadence. Perhaps that may help later? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:51, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's actually out? Do the other names match up with pre-established JP names? It seems too similar to the ALttP one to be coincidence, and isn't it a Western-produced (and 3rd party) game anyway? If so, they may have been unaware of the JP names to begin with and assumed they were the same. I'd check Darknut and Iron Knuckle specifically. Remember the "Rudy the Clown" thing on MarioWiki.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:39, 14 June 2019 (UTC) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:39, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I was talking about this dude. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:06, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. Regardless, they're still "Zoras" in most games, and ALBW went out of its way to ensure they were the same thing. Again, I'd consider a 3rd party game to be a good clue for names, but not for separation on what is generally the same subject. (Speaking of, I'm still not sure how to handle sword/spear/bow Moblins...my preference would be to keep them in the same article, but that could get convoluted for some games, and doesn't even scratch the surface on the situation with Soldiers) Is the Stalfos Knight kind of like King Ikana in that way...? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:36, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Anyways, I think we should treat Sutarufosu Naito as simply a recursive translation error (but still valid enough for the NioL box), as I find it highly unlikely that a game that references so many obscure enemies as once (Daira, Puffstool, Shrouded Stalfos, and what appears to be the Zombies from Awakening, to name a few) would unknowingly create an enemy with the same name and highly-comparable appearance and behavior to a previous enemy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:55, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Quite interesting! Technically speaking, 'nut and 'knuckle coexisted in The Wand of Gamelon, though this is the first time a game with direct input from Nintendo had them both. Additionally, Kargarok should have been Kargaroc on the wiki anyways, as only the TWW spelling was actually in-game. Anyways, hope Nintendo gets inspired to bring Lanmola, Daira, and (real) Wallmaster back because of this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, it makes sense to have all the color variations on the same scale. Just because Moblins, Guards, Lizalfos, and Bokoblins debut in different games doesn't mean they should use different scales because their debuts had different palette systems, it would get confusing. Admittedly, it does trip me up with Tektites in ALttP/ALBW... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:55, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Quite interesting! I think we should stay fairly close to the Mariowiki policies, but we're still in the beginning stages so I mostly just want to see what works. Anyways, the Moldorm situation has been on I'v puzzled over quite a bit. For the original, it was in an enclosed instruction book and the "Tail" one was in-game, though it might be more convenient to refer to at least one by the alternate name. I'd prefer to keep the original on Moldorm since it's the actual Moldorm, though. If I ever help to make a Zelda game in a similar situation to Cadence I'll rectify the hell out of the Tail situation. And that's not even getting into whether Moldworm is the same as the original, because I'm really starting to think that was the intent. Of course, we'd need the JP ALBW guide to ascertain that.....additionally, on the subject of the OoT Great Moblin, I think it'd be best to refer to it in-text on the Moblin page as "large Moblin with a club," as using the Versus Book name when it already gave normal Moblins an alternate translation seems iffy. On the OoT page and template, probably "Moblin (club)" would do. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:38, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. A further note on the Dark Palace/Shadow Temple thing, the Hyrule Warriors games use "darkness" for its purple element/barrier; that being the same as OoT's shadow seems likely, and makes it so all but the orange "lightning" one match OoT ones. (Sorry if that didn't make as much sense as I hoped, I'm tired right now.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Tartnuc and Soldier
This is a bit of a long shot, but I've been playing ALBW recently. Anyways, as you probably know, one of the two main armor designs for the Soldier enemies closely resembles the typical design for Darknuts. The armor is used for the Ball & Chain Troopers, Bomb Troopers, red pitchfork-wielding soldiers, the unused cannon dude, and indigo/blue sword-wielding soldiers. In ALttP, the indigo sword-wielders are unique to the upper floors of Hyrule Castle iirc, but in ALBW, the blue sword-wielders are as common as the generic green sword-wielding soldiers. Anyways, what I'm curious of it whether these blueish sword-wielders, whose behavior is used for the sword-wielding Darknuts(/Moblins/Pig Warriors/Shrouded Stalfos/glitch Trendy Game operators) in the GBC games are ever indicated by JP materials to be Tatonakku themselves. I'm particularly curious as this design is absent from FSA, which has its own Darknuts (Cheif Soldiers) and its Ball & Chain Troopers are given a vastly different helmet. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:54, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

It's a really minor thing based on a fairly easy mistake, but...
I do find it amusing that this thing that is the spitting image of Daira's artwork is being misidentified as a Zazak here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, they eventually fixed it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:23, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Moldorm vs. Moldworm
I'm curious, do you know what Swamola is called in the ALBW Japanese guide? Because I considered that "Moldworm" might just be a rename for Moldorm in Japan, since Moldorm is a worm in the original game and the Satellaview variant. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, now I'm even more suspicious about this, since I've seen that Moldworm's TMC behavior is pretty much Moldorm's TLoZ behavior, but with the "eating" part added. The whole "coming out of the dirt segment-by-segment and slowly looping around thing." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:55, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Wall Master CDi
Do the guides you cited also refer to the small punchy ones in TWoG as Wall Masters? Also, is "Sancromy" the proper spelling of the thing in Ganon's Lair in TFoE? Because Gwonam pronounces it as "san-CREW-me." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:25, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Hoo-hah
You are on fire today! Thanks so much! Results May Vary (talk) 19:26, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm fresh off Cadence of Hyrule (even though I'm not very good at the whole rhythm thing right now), so I figured I'd get us some new game info. I also intend to upload screenshots and maybe create articles on the exclusive content. LTL (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Nut and Knuckle relations
I considered them as being roughly the same situation as Stalfos and Stalfon, ie an extremely similar substitute that's basically the same thing, and as such is basically a variant. I suppose following that logic, Ache should count as well for Keese. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:36, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me. Ultimately, the nonspecificity with the parameters is what I was going for, so as to not misuse words like "species." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:28, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * At the same time, though, Darknuts act basically like adaptationally-difficult N64 Iron Knuckles in TP, with the "moving slow and having two phases" thing. The Darknuts in there just seem to be encountered in pairs more often. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:30, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Cadence screenshots
I'm curious, why are the screenshots of Cadence of Hyrule: Crypt of the overly-long extended name you are uploading of the .jpg file extension? Is it one of those screen-eating games or something? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:26, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I suppose the game's download-only? When I downloaded Odyssey on my connection it took the entire night XD. By the by, TSR has been getting a lot of rips up for it by the admins, you should check it out some time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:33, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd sure hope it's a lot smaller, given it's a sprite-based game inspired by a game I only know as a Steam game a friend of mine made an esoteric mod for, and SMO's a vast 3D game of high-poly HD models. Anyways, I may look into it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Ganon and Ganondorf's alternate forms
I suppose, although Agahnim (which side note I hate spelling) is at least a humanoid and seems to be a middle-east-desert-inspired person (particularly given that concept art of "Ganon the thief" in Hyrule Historia). Calamity Ganon has a humanoid face in his battle, so it seemed valid to me at the time of writing, though now that they've shown a presumably-Ganondorf in the teaser for the sequel, it may need reevaluated. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:57, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Soldiers vs Guards
Sooner or later, we're going to need to make a decision on how exactly to handle troopers/soldiers/Soldiers/Guards and their numerous varieties. Since it seems the best thing to do regarding Moblins is to keep all the weapon-based variants on the same page, I'm not sure what to do with the soldiers. With Moblins, keeping them on the same page is what avoids clusterf*ck, but with soldiers, having them all in the same place seems more liable to cause that. Additionally, if I'm to understand correctly, Cadence ' s "Guards" were only the bow, sword, and "Ball 'N Chain" types. Since I have the Tri-Force Heroes guide, I can confirm in it they are called Soldiers with a capital S. However, aside from the Sky Soldiers and the unlisted Den of Trials "dark" Sky Soldiers, that game only has six variants (Green Sword Soldier, Blue Sword Soldier, Spear Throwing Soldier, Silver Ball & Chain Soldier, Gold Ball & Chain Soldier, and Bomb Soldier; there are also six sky ones, with one corresponding to each). I am unaware how the ALBW guide calls its much more exhaustive amount of variants, nor the FSA one, and I suppose the ALttP one pretty much generically addressed them. Anyways, we need to decide how to split and name these, especially with the "Guard" name only being used for a few. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:48, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It probably wouldn't hurt that much to have them have inconsistent identifiers. I suppose the "base" page would be "Soldier," since that's what they were called the last time the generic Soldiers with small blades appeared, correct? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:40, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Following that, I suppose we'd use the same article used for the short-blade for referring to Soldiers in general from games that lack said "base" variety, like TFH and CoH. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I've started on the Guards, from what I can tell from TSR, the ones in CoH that have shields and point their swords upwards are the "normal" guards while the ones that point the swords forward and lack shields are the "sword" guards (or at last, the red ones are). Not sure how this jives with the JP names, though. I'm also curious if the Soldiers that charge with spears should be separated from the ones that throw the spears, since "Yari Heishi" is the only name I can find. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:07, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen, she's only called "Syrup" in the Oracle games and The Minish Cap, and in all of those, her sprite and theme music is based off the one in Link's Awakening. Due to the "Mapes" in ALBW (who the textbox called "Witch" anyways), it might be best to either have "Witch" be split from Syrup or to have "Witch" be the main title for the concept in general. Additionally, "Syrup" is depicted with turquoise hair while the "Witch" has white hair, but I'm not sure if it's been shown how the new LA will do that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:39, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I haven't a source for Archer, myself. Does the crazy indigo sword soldier also have that sort of identifier? Worth noting on the Witch vs Syrup debate is that "Witch " is still the most recently-used "name," so that's where the article would go. I am also curious how to go about "Tower of Hera" vs. "Mountain Tower," since I'm pretty sure in-game dialog calls it the former name multiple times, primarily through telepathy tile hints. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Imp Poe
Do you know if Imp Poes referred to as generic Poes in Japanese? Since apparently the bigger "Poes" from Arbiter's Grounds are "Pōfī" instead. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Armos Knights (about shared dungeons in different places)
Yes. There could be some exceptions if it's extremely likely it's a coincidence (like the Earth Temples of TWW and SS, that might seem like too...esoteric and random of a callback, particularly with the different themes), but again, I feel the grand majority should be treated the same as the various inconsistent depictions of the Lost Woods and Death Mountain. I've been considering having the forest areas of LA and MM in the same article too, since their JP names are at least pronounced the same, and are both "discount Lost Woods from another world." Turtle Rock should specially stay on the same article, since all three were in different locations, and the ALBW one's existence called back to the original while using the fire theme of the LA one. Additionally, I think any dungeon to share a name with an OoT dungeon should b on the same page as it, as it is both figuratively and literally the nexus of the entire main series, and as such references to it are far less esoteric. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:09, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

About the King of Hyrule article I'm envisioning
I think the article should be about the unnamed Kings primarily, with the named ones being mainarticle'd. One of the main reasons for this is TMC having both King Daltus and the ghost of the previous King Gustaf. Anyways, I think thy can all go in the "counterparts" section of the infobox. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:09, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:28, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Pyramid (of Power)
So should we consider the FSA location an iteration of the same place? It'd certainly fill in a lot of holes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Progress
Thank you again for helping to clarify and fix some of the naming regarding A Link to the Past. I kind of quickly put together a list, so we could work around the confusion of ALttP names. It's always embarrassing when I realize how much of the naming I got wrong, haha. Thanks so much again -- now six Zelda games have their lists filled in, the first five being from the 20th century (Zelda 1 until Ocarina of Time) and The Wind Waker. Things are going at a pretty good rate I'd say! I just fixed up the main paragraph of Link's article, so now that too looks nice.

By the way, would you consider Legends of Localization reliable? I ordered a digital download of their Book 1 on the first Zelda game. Results May Vary (talk) 20:30, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure thing, and yes, I consider Legends of Localization pretty reliable. I actually had a copy of that book, but I seem to have misplaced it. LTL (talk) 21:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)