User talk:Results May Vary

Forking
So how much forking has been done for this site currently in comparison to how much is planned? I'd like to create a bunch of just-above stub articles for the main recurring enemies so thy can be filled in more conveniently, but don't want to interfere with that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by that? I moved the content off zelda.shoutwiki.com entirely. The whole site is off, and all the content not from hylian pi on zelda archive is preserved here. He gave me the pages and images to preserve here Results May Vary (talk) 01:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I meant like the enemy pages that were on ZeldaArchive, mostly. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Zora
I think that Zoras probably should all be on one page, since the ones in OoT are based off the previous ones (just always friendly not usually ugly) and LBW has an extra-large amount of friendly versions of the Gillman-like ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Patra
Although NIWA Zeldawiki always called it a boss, in action, I don't see why it should be ranked any higher than Lanmola in that regard. I mean, they often appear multiple in a room, they don't seem to act as a boss like Dodongo does (which is degraded to generic more-than-one-in-room enemy later), and I don't think they ever roar (though I could be wrong there). They seem like just an enemy that has rather sophisticated behavior. Admittedly, "Eyesoar" (which is the same thing) in Oracle of Ages is a boss, but that's a different game. Note that "Patra" should still get name priority due to being from a manual. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:05, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me -- if you see any mistakes, I strongly encourage you to correct them--that's the whole point of wiki: properly cited facts and infromation. I'm actually counting on you to help me with name sources, since the Zelda naming is such a mess; i'm just trying to put all the names and sprites together on the Zelda 1, which has been taking me 1-2 days already to finish up. An example of a naming confusion is that Rocks is the name from in the Zelda 1 manual but they're listed under the Boulder page on NIWA Zelda Wiki Results May Vary (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure "boulder" has been used in the same context in a game since then. Either way, they're both generic names. If LTL gets involved, he should be more helpful in that regard, since he has actual guidebooks (the only guidebooks I own are the inconsistent Dark Horse ones and the Tri-Force Heroes guide) and knows a significantly higher level of Japanese than I do. From what I can tell, the only Dark Horse-translated guidebook that didn't blatantly take from the various wikis (and the hilariously unreliable Zelda.com) was the first, Hyrule Historia, and it probably did less-obvious amount of that regardless. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:23, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Does Zelda have any other Super Mario Encyclopedia-type equivalents where they take names from wikis, causing citogenesis? Results May Vary (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Also i told LinkTheLefty about this place--he didn't seem interested. Results May Vary (talk) 22:34, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The only ones I know are Arts & Artifacts and Zelda Encyclopedia. The latter most laughably blatant, rivaling SMBE. I legitimately wonder if ZD worked on that as well. Also yay, first edit conflict of the new wiki. :P Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Weee. Also regarding LTL and Doom, I think some editors would probably only join when there's more content for them to work with, or if the wiki proves its durability Results May Vary (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I additionally should mention that the manual (or at last the Western one) doesn't really separate between enemies and bosses. Overworld and underworld enemies, but not enemies and bosses, which is a bit of a minor problem as Dodongo explicitly acts as both in the game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:24, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Since when was naming Canon?
Exactly. They act as if things can only have one "true" name. You know, despite synonyms and language/term evolution being a thing in both real life and fiction. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Note for when creating the species infobox
I'd mostly like it to be like the MarioWiki one. However, due to problems we've had regarding how relations between entities work, I'd say the relation parameters should be "variants" (for what is a subtype of another), "parent entity" or "variant of" (for the opposite), "relatives" (for what is clearly in the same group, but lacks as cohesive a relation as the previous two), and "comparable" (for ones that, while not clearly related, are still close enough to be linked to). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:36, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, do you want to create it now or should i do it? Also thank you for helping fill in the blanks on the Legend of Zelda page -- you've already been a big help :) Results May Vary (talk) 01:54, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Well I mean if I did it I'd just be nicking the source code off of MarioWiki, and I haven't got whatever permission I need to do that as far as I can tell....also you're welcome, it's nice to have something to do that isn't the somewhat stressful preparation for final exams. (At the very least, only two of my classes actually have those this semester...) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:01, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll go create it then. It would be located under Template:Species infobox when i do create it Results May Vary (talk) 02:06, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * All right then. ^^ Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:10, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Right, it's been created. Enjoy Results May Vary (talk) 02:21, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

OG Death Mountain
Perhaps "Labyrinth" since it appears in level-like quantities in later games, when "Labyrinth" is dropped as dungeons become more theme-based than maze-based. Nice tab icon, by the way, since it's now showing up as Triforce. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:48, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you -- I noticed a lack of a favicon, so i decided to add one in. I also did labyrinth for the zelda 1 dungeon names since that's the name used throughout the instruction manual Results May Vary (talk) 02:11, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Games Template
I personally dislike templates that separate console from handheld in "Main Games," unless it's a series that actually does seem to separate continuity that way. Zelda does not. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:56, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, I just thought since Wikipedia organized it like, it would be understandable for the nav template to. maybe we can make a Console games and Handheld games category, as a category per system would have too few entries? Results May Vary (talk) 19:00, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * That would make more sense to me. Doing it in template just messes with the ordering IMO. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * So would we just simplify it into "Main series" in the template? Results May Vary (talk) 19:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd say so, or more accurately The Legend of Zelda series. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:04, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Aren't there spinoff titles in the series itself (like the CD-i games) Results May Vary (talk) 19:06, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * They don't have "The Legend of Zelda" in the title. I'd say they're in the franchise, but not the series. Quit a bit more removed than the Donkey Kong Land games were from the Donkey Kong Country games, that's for sure. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd personally be worried about The title "The Legend of Zelda series" stretching farther than Main series, even though as you said, it's more specific. I just worry about it being too ambiguous, what do you think (and tbh i confused franchise and series up to this point). Results May Vary (talk) 19:10, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It is pretty long, which is probably enough to justify "Main series." It could also be abbreviated to "TLoZ series." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:23, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:2nd Poison / Life Poison
Probably the same, since one's just a double version of the other, and milk works kinda like that in later games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:14, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Suppose so, since thy do work different from the variously-colored "Potions" in ALttP and onwards. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:00, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Pokemon Season 5: Master Quest/OoTGCN
I'd Have the full title for the disc and "Master Quest (mode)" for the mode itself, since last I checked the mode didn't go by the LozOoT title. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:26, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I just went ahead and called it OoT Bonus Disc, as on TCRF. There's not really any clear title of what it's called (and nice strikeout haha) Results May Vary (talk) 05:56, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * In the game's packaging (i.e. box and manual), it's "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time", but in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Chronicle, it's "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest". "Bonus Disc" comes from the text "TWO-GAME BONUS DISC!" on the front cover, but as far as I know it's not part of the title anywhere official. I'd probably go with "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (Nintendo GameCube)" for the Game Disc and "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest" for the game mode because the Nintendo lot check process is usually pretty strict (and the 3DS game mode is called "The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D Master Quest" when unlocked). LTL (talk) 06:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

The King
May you delete King Harkinan due to the King Harkinian page covering the same character? Doomhiker (talk) 19:47, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Oops, good catch. I didnt even notice that I originally created the page with a typo. Thank you Results May Vary (talk) 20:22, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Moldorm
I don't think these guys know what the hell they're doing anymore  The official JP organization, on the other hand, is much more concise, splitting this into four fairly-different subjects instead of six inconsistently-different ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:36, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Wait, so there's four different Moldorms? Results May Vary (talk) 05:39, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes. Moldorm (guy from first game whose segments all look the same), Tail (crazy li'l guy), Big Tail (crazy big guy), and Moldworm (bigmouth underground guy). The later Magtail and Tailparasan take after Tail, while Twinmold and Molgera take after Moldorm. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:46, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I finished the preliminary versions for our versions of the articles through the night, by the way. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:34, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, looks like I was wrong. There wasn't six articles for four subjects. There was seven. I didn't realize this counted in there as well: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:38, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Opinion on Zelda Archive
I like the green, but ultimately it looks like something that could be made on MySQL with minimal coding. I'd say "MS Word" before "MS Paint," myself. It's....rough, but there's not really a lot going on with it, so that's to b expected. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I did see some unrest about the bullcrap policies while looking around on there, at the very least. The blue is likely just because images are highly unlikely to blend. I personally kinda like it, even if it makes no sense thematically. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:27, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Timeline..
I personally would like to know what the JP guidebooks have to say, as I have a feeling that the one in the Western books was at least partially fanfic-inspired. There are a few relations definite and SS is definitely the first, but to have a whole "timeline" of everything seems a tad suspect to me. Espcially when FSA gets involved. Additionally, I have a feeling much of BotW is intended to outright break the idea of an all-encompassing "timeline." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:44, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Wait why would they use fanfics as a resource for explaining the timeline? Results May Vary (talk) 02:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Because what info didn't come from Zeldawiki and Zeldapedia mostly came from other fan sources in some insane attempt at keeping with the "Western" "canon" that some fans go rabid over. Hyrule Historia and Arts & Artifacts have slightly different timelines between them, for example. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:05, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

GlitterBerri's translation of Hyrule Historia seems reliable (she later had a hand in official localizations). It's incomplete, but has the essential lore. The follow-up books, Hyrule Graphics / Art & Artifacts and Hyrule Encyclopedia / Encyclopedia, are untrustworthy because they were instead written by fan magazine NintendoDREAM (albeit with the Nintendo license), with at least one of them having a direct disclaimer stating that artistic liberties were taken with the source material. Not to mention all three books were published by Dark Horse, with certain details like the identity of the Oracle games' Link even changing depending if you're reading the Japanese or English version. Mind you, Hyrule Historia also has a statement suggesting that the timeline isn't set in stone, but at least the original writers didn't try to pass off their theories as fact like the NintendoDREAM writers. I could go on as things get downright egregious by the third book, but I think that about covers it in terms of the timeline. That said, I believe it would be remiss not to eventually have an article designed to contain the Hyrule Historia timeline and maybe other valid updates since then, if only because it's to be expected as a part of the series for many fans and would stand out if the information was missing from the wiki entirely, but otherwise I agree that it's best to keep chronological/canonical references to a minimum. LTL (talk) 06:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Artwork
What do you think about me taking artwork from the NIWA Zeldawiki? Often it's cropped badly, and I actually do have all three of the poorly-"translated" books (which themselves have artwork), but there's still a lot of sourced artwork on there I'm otherwise unable to access. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:44, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you have the Arts & Artifacts book? I have an official PDF if you want to use it. taking from other wikis is kind of a last resort, in my opinion Results May Vary (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, I have all three. Hyrule Historia, Arts & Artifacts, and Encyclopedia. This however does not include, for instance, the Million publishing guide artwork for the first game, and skips several artworks from games it does cover. I particularly have my eye on this art for the Zelda 1 Moldorm. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:10, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I allow it--but like Mario Wiki, i'd recommend not adding images with fan-applied transparency. how about you? Results May Vary (talk) 21:12, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * There's no rule on there against that. The rule is that transparency shouldn't have artifacts around the edges. I've added transparency to images myself, but I know how to do it carefully and thoroughly, and to make sure the images is sufficiently crisp before doing so. For example... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:17, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay--usually fan transparency is a jpg converted to png, which usually inflates the file size. But i wont bother you any further/ Long story short, my answer is a yes. I'm just giving recommendations, as Mario Wiki does not like fan transparency images, or jpg to png converted files Results May Vary (talk) 21:22, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Well I mean the .jpg thing is pretty obvious to anyone who works with pixels a lot, and I'm a spriter, so... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * ohh i see what you mean. Yeah that's definitely alright--i thought you meant about altering jpg artworks from computer images rather than a manual. sorry for the confusion Results May Vary (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The only time I've done a .jpg -> .png was with book scan images copypasted from imgur that I wasn't sure of the file type of at the time (though I know NOW it was a .jpg due to the "save image as" function), but that was a couple years ago. And even then, I applied the same rules for cropping. So yeah, it's only happened for me in what amounts to an accident. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:29, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Ocarina of Time
The item really should take priority there, since it's the thing that's actually called just "Ocarina of Time." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah i've been wondering about that. I could add an about template on the Ocarina of Time item page then? Would that sound like a better solution? Results May Vary (talk) 23:01, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Indubitably. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:02, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:OoT Characters
I'd put the major/supporting characters in a table with info, and give the minor characters an article-linking gallery or list one section below. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Enemies
I personally have always disliked the "new enemies vs old enemies" setup, as it messes up alphabetization and can be bucked up if new information arising showing things to be the same. I prefer to at most mark new enemies with some symbol, like an asterisk, and be done with it. And again, that's "at most." I'm perfectly content mixing them without differentiation, especially if there is an overwhelming amount of new enemies. It just seems cleaner to me. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:48, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Gohma
Gohma is generally a boss. What I was talking about was Gohma Larva (from OoT) as comparing to Baby Gohma and Young Gohma (from TP), since they both derive from Larva. I wanted to see if either shared a JP name with Larva so we'd know if either was intended to be the "original." To wit, the tiny Baby Gohma hatches from Gohma Eggs like GOhma Larva, but scuttles around slowly in huge groups either in circles or in Link's direction, and Young Gohmas act more like and are about the same size as Gohma Larvae, but are found freestanding. Neither resemble Gohma Larvae visually, since the Larvae were based on the bizarre OoT Gohma redesign (which Miyamoto apparently said is a redesign of the same entity), and the TP enemies are based on the more....restrained TP Armogohma design. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)

Moldorm
My hope with showing LTL the Moldorm thing is to quell any worry that we'll be anything like Gamepedia ZeldaWiki, by showing just how much I'm differing from what they do. Namely, I'm doing it better >:P Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:30, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * there we go, thats the spirit mate. So others also have problems with the Gamepedia wiki? I looked at the Gamepedia wiki & I dunno why but I just notice so many things there being improved (but i dont think they'd allow it due to strict manual of style) Results May Vary (talk) 04:40, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * People have problem with their, ahem, "canon policy." Namely, it's bogus and blatantly so, but the powers-that-be won't change it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:47, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * How come they dont change that? Results May Vary (talk) 04:57, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Because they are seemingly too thick to realize that Dark Horse copied straight from them (that "Hand" thing makes them, ahem, "red-handed") and they wanna go by "English name canon" over "what the creator was going for." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:07, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * So basically they like to feel like their research is authentic and use the Dark Horse book as a means of proving it? Results May Vary (talk) 05:38, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:How is the wiki?
Yes Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:24, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't like to pick favorites. Every franchise has its ups and downs. I love some of the better games in the Frogger and Phantasy Star franchises, but loathe the worse ones. Just, for example. My favorite video game franchise adaptation to a non-game media would be the young-and-innocent EA's older Harry Potter games, hands-down. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:26, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Link's gender needing citation
Eh it seems a bit mean-spirited to have a section for mocking the other wiki's poor standards. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:39, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Manuals and their names
.pdfs of enclosed manuals can be readily found online by searching, by the way. The only time I've ever had trouble with this is the Japanese Super Mario USA manual. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:15, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I dunno why i didnt think of that. Sorry for the incompetence, haha Results May Vary (talk) 02:42, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Zelda II palettes
I wish I'd told you this before, but those old sheets from BruceJuice had godawful palettes, some of which were almost certainly modified. Please use the palettes from the sheets Arima ripped, like here. To help you, please check the notes I left in the comments on this sheet, which while I may not be entirely correct in some intricacies between cave and dungeon, it's a lot better than those other sheets. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It's going to be hard manually applying that onto every sprite. Is there a way I can do it via an emulator, like Nestopia (i think that one's accurate)? Results May Vary (talk) 00:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You'd have to ask someone with more experience with emulators. I'd just use the secondary layer in MS Paint to knock out several at once. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Please don't call slight color differences in the same palette "variants," because they aren't. It's supposed to represent environmental lighting differences. Hence why Bots appear darker in palaces, because the palaces themselves are meant to be darker. NES palette workarounds often cause confusion, I know. Some of the wackiest I know of is the green palette being cyan for castles in SMB3 and the gray/green palette in SMB2. Anyways, they have four available palettes for sprites to work with at a time, so sometimes if one is otherwise not in use, it can be repurposed for another by changing the values in that situation. And sometimes, graphics may overlap, and while they look different, the coding of the entity itself is not. The "purple" Bot admittedly has different coding, but it's not meant to stand out from other Bots appearance-wise, it just happens to because of its location. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:28, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It's a good page, and it has good information, it just sometimes takes a little technical knowledge to explain why some things are the way they are. Note that I am far from omniscient on this subject, and I have decidedly less knowledge on how graphics on other platforms work, though it generally is more knowledge than a grand majority of the population would know about. As a side note, I was having trouble finding a place to put that thing about the magic on that page without it coming off as clunky. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:57, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, update on this situation. MisterMike on TSR has re-ripped the enemies and bosses and included a proper palette key for each. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:35, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It would probably be for the best. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:14, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Board game images
I did not see the duplicate files you uploaded while I uploaded them, so may you please delete them? Thanks. Doomhiker (talk) 20:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I also created the Delete template if such an instance were to happen again, or if a user needs to mark a page for deletion Results May Vary (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Arts & Artifacts
So I've owned the physical book for a couple years now, you say you have a computer-based version? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yup Results May Vary (talk) 22:58, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, so how does one extract the images from a .cbz file? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This is Results May Vary, logged off. Apparently from a Google search, cbz is just a renamed zip extension. Try changing the extension to zip to see if that does anything. 172.58.40.155 00:56, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK. Moved this message to the proper section, btw. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:30, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that. I usually dont like using IP address to message, since anyone can say they're me, but I was on-the-go and just wanted to let you know this. Thanks Results May Vary (talk) 03:56, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I am Error
While mentioning the meme on the Error character page is fine, I think that making an entire page for a single meme is delving into fandom too much. We could have a List of The Legend of Zelda references on the Internet page similar to on the Mario Wiki or even just a List of The Legend of Zelda memes page, where all nessecary information can be listed. Note that memes such as Yoshi commits tax fraud have been officially acknowledged and still managed to be put into a list, and that other memes such as Bowsette have Wikipedia pages too. Doomhiker (talk) 00:16, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Basically, there is two ways of doing it. There is one way where there is only a list, and one which will use the main template to link to the main page. Here is what I mean:

Model A (Only a list)

Model B (Link to the main article(s) using the main template on the list page)

To summarize, Model A would avoid having a single page for every meme, but would risk having the list be clunky and bloated. While it is true that we could massively trim the information, it would result in a large loss of info, including official references by Nintendo. Model B may be preferable if only memes with a large amount of info have pages, with the others simply having a single entry on the list. When summarizing the article using the main template, it would be preferable if the summery was just a quick roundup of all needed info, as seen above. Doomhiker (talk) 01:16, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I think we can try with Model A for now. Wouldn't we call the article "List of The Legend of Zelda references on the Internet"? Results May Vary (talk) 01:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Timeline redirect
I think it's good for now, though maybe it should link to the specific section once the article covers the rest of the book. If more significant developments happen, we can cross that bridge when we get there. LTL (talk) 09:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

My favorite Gamepedia Zeldawiki blunder
This. Apparently someone decided the line "This is a Zora child! This is outside my area of expertise!" means that he's racist against Zoras, and not that he's just too unfamiliar with their very non-human internal anatomy to reliably treat one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * How did they misinterpret that? Results May Vary (talk) 01:07, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but it's been that way for years. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:47, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Promotion
Thank This is actually the first time I've been an admin of anything since a group project in high school XD Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:14, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You are welcoem. I thought it would be fair since I realized you started this idea. It would only be fair to make you an admin, especially since you make a fraction of all edits here. Results May Vary (talk) 19:39, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Backlight stuff
Ya on the GB a backlight palette would be green. The washed-out colors on the other may be a backlight palette issue, or just a bad emulator from 2004 when it was uploaded. I unfortunately do not have the ROM on my computer for DX (as I hadn't really considered getting it at the time due to having it on my 3DS), so I can't do a proper re-rip myself. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:44, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why I left the image quality tag. Because I had a feeling that there was an issue. Results May Vary (talk) 15:47, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I had noticed this happening with some Oracle re-rips on TSR, so the ripper investigated and realized the issue, then re-ripped all of those. I'm not sure about how trustworthy the LADX TSR ones are, but BruceJuice's sheets have a history of palette issues, likely just due to being old, and as such, using old inaccurate emulators. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * What should I be using for palette accuracy then? Results May Vary (talk) 15:50, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * As of now, I am unsure. I do know that LA has more saturated tans than the Oracle games, at any rate. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Item infobox
Hi, before I make that Rupee page, I really think the way games are listed on the item infobox should be the same as the first/last the other ones use. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:01, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay I changed it. Thanks for creating that page -- i was holding off on making the 100th article because I figured you'd get to the 100th one, Rupee. Results May Vary (talk) 04:14, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Armos Knights
Just make an "Armos Knight" page since in other games they are singular, like with Lanmola. Also, my vision with recurring dungeons is to have them be the same page. I know this might get overwhelming in some cases, but ultimately, the question I have is "should every Kakariko Village also get its own page?" I don't think it should, and I think dungeons should be in the same boat. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:35, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah... The thing is -- aren't the dungeon layouts entirely different? How do we make it navigatable on the same page? if this makes sense. I'm not going again you -- i just have this one question about it. Results May Vary (talk) 01:24, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Same thing we'd do for Master Quest dungeons, game subsections. ALBW's Eastern Palace layout is basically an abridged version of the ALttP one, anyways. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:03, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll fix it. thank you for pointing this out Results May Vary (talk) 02:39, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Re:Link's Awakening
I'd try BGB or VBA, just make sure the lcd backlight simulation thingy in the graphics menu is turned off. It's possible that the palettes in the old rip were actually correct, but with the track record, I'd be cautious. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Background tile objects
Hi, when ripping objects that are one with the 16x16 background tiles on the actual graphic layer, I try to keep the whole tile intact, as removing it is technically fan transparency. It's not important, it's just a thing to help see how the graphics themselves work for the uninitiated. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:12, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? Results May Vary (talk) 04:40, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh you mean the objects that I edited out with the Ctrl + F1 key (like the Eye Guard statue)? Results May Vary (talk) 04:43, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah like those. The things that don't have actual transparency in-engine due to being part of the background. Again, it's not a big deal. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:18, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Another thing I'm curious about is the Angler Fish, since it's displaying 4 different shades with transparency. Is the outline or one of the fill shades actually transparency? Is it actually background tiles? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:04, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * It's the full sprite itself--for the sprite I only changed the VBA background color to dark blue and edited out the Angler Fish from that. Results May Vary (talk) 14:21, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

YipYip
Is that name from the NP guide? Apparently the Switch one may call it "CiaoCiao" or something, but I suppose we should wait and see. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:24, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Apparently it's only referred to as "puppy" in the trading sequence section of the guide. I should be getting a Link's Awakening DX guide soon (costs quite a lot too!), so hopefully that can help us with name research Results May Vary (talk) 22:19, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Origins of this wiki
Hello, I'm from MarioWiki. You've also seen me on WiKirby.

I was originally going to join Zelda Wiki (the NIWA one), but I kept being redirected to Gamepedia whenever I tried to register an account. It seemed like it was originally possible to create an account there without having to sign in anywhere else. I mainly planned to join to add item descriptions from the first game's Wii U Virtual Console manual, but the redirecting confused me and I decided to give up on it. I later found out that Gamepedia is a part of FANDOM. Aaagh. Later, I found this wiki, and it appeared to be done in a fashion I was more familiar with, so I joined.

Anyway, that's my story. What I've been wondering is how this wiki started, because I noticed it was founded only a few months ago. I know the discussion that started this wiki can be found somewhere, but I felt like asking you about it instead. Obsessive Mario Fan (talk) 19:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The whole reason I started this wiki is due to all the massive problems with the Gamepedia one. For example, its lack of user friendly experience, the fact it uses a Dark Horse publication (Zelda Encyclopedia) as its main resource of citing names, and how they refuse to move off Gamepedia even 8-9 months after the FANDOM acquisition, and overstaying their welcome in NIWA. The wiki also is dark blue, which isn't a color that defines the Zelda series, and they insist everything to be a certain way (even image descriptions and file names all have to match & uppercase section titles). Those are among the big reasons I have founded this wiki -- and also, the style is deliberately meant to compliment that of Super Mario Wiki's, especially since Super Mario and Zelda consist of similar developers. Results May Vary (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks for letting me know! I'm glad you started this wiki. Obsessive Mario Fan (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * No problem, enjoy! Also, with Zeldapedia closed, there's more room for distinction with Triforce Wiki as well, as Zeldapedia had a style closer to Mario Wiki's than Zelda Wiki did. There's Zelda Dungeon Wiki (who i get along with & even have their website in the sidebar to show my support) but their wiki feels more like an add-on to their walkthroughs and feels more casual. I also did not really like how the wiki is named after the fansite, which further proves my thoughts on it being casual & being sort of like a glossary to their walkthroughs. It is a respectable and unique approach though, i'll admit that at least. Results May Vary (talk) 20:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

File names
I know this is ultimately a personal preference thing, but I honestly feel that listing the game name before the subject name in file names is far more convenient for archiving purposes due to the alphabetical sorting. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:43, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, though I personally prefer listing the subject name as it's about the subject first & foremost. but yeah, it's ultimately a matter of personal preference. I wouldn't want to get too linear on file naming conventions, as long as it describes the subject and isn't a gibberish/misleading file name. What do you think? Results May Vary (talk) 02:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it ultimately doesn't matter, I just find it to be easier when in large image categories. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Identifiers and length thereof
OK, having nearly given myself carpal tunnel syndrome multiple times on writing these articles all at once, I can say with a decent amount of certainty that having the shared series title in identifiers when it's trying to differentiate is too much. This isn't like the extended Mario franchise family where there's eleventy-pi zillion subseries, this franchise has only like three subseries (one of which encompasses the majority of the games) and some crossover appearances. Anyways, I feel it's too much to do that. This is also partially coming from the technical point that one could consider the first game to be fully titled "The Legend of Zelda: The Hyrule Fantasy." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:08, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Fan transparency on MarioWiki
Oh, it's allowed, just only in cases where it can be done crisply. What's not allowed is leaving artifacts or converting from .jpg to a transparency-supporting format. I myself have actually removed backgrounds from .png-original images and occasionally still do so, but only in cases where it can be feasibly be done (for instance ).
 * Gotcha, Doomhiker told me the same thing on Discord. Thank you Results May Vary (talk) 20:54, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Direct
By the way, I added all the moves thee Nintendo Direct just confirmed for Smash Bros. onto JiggyWikki. Anyways, LA remake's looking nice. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:33, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you Doc, and yeah the remake looks cool. I'll probably still prefer LADX though Results May Vary (talk) 01:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Likely to stay my preferred version, but I think this'll be worth the novelty at any rate. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:00, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Re:Link article
Looks good so far, I agree that it is important to know the background behind the design history before getting into the implementation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:25, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

King Moblin / Moblin Chief & Rolling Bones / Spike Roller
The Link's Awakening remake's official website uses Moblin Chief and Spike Roller for two bosses instead of King Moblin and Rolling Bones. Should these be the article titles? They're technically more recent, but if we're basing ourselves on the Mario Wiki naming policy, strategy guides still are higher priority than web content. (Also, hope it's not a bother, but I added another question about the DX Prima guide on Doomhiker's talk page.) LTL (talk) 16:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It's a higher priority generally for the same game, and this has a difference of over 25 years. I think possibly we could make an exception....except that there is a recent in game name for the former, Big Blin. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:15, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I've wanted the naming policies to be the exact same as Super Mario Wiki's, so if it's only name source is the website, i'd keep the old title but have the article text say something like Rolling Bones, also known as Spike Roller, until something from like a newer Link's Awakening switch guide comes up. What's your opinion on keeping the policies like Mario Wiki's? Results May Vary (talk) 20:14, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd personally prefer them to be renamed Moblin Chief and Spike Roller, since the official website is far more accessible than an 80 dollar Prima guide, but ultimately i'll leave it up to you, LTL. As for Chain Chomp question you had, i'm looking into my LADX Prima guide in a moment... Results May Vary (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know if an official guide for the new game will be made, what with PRIMA's recent closure. Still, "Big Blin" has been used in-game as recently as HWDE, released within the last year or two. It wouldn't surprise me if the "Rolling Bones" change was done for similar reasons to the "Hootie the Blue Fish" rename in Smash Ultimate. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:35, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Good points, so I believe we should go with "Big Blin" for in-game priority but "Spike Roller" to respect the probable legal concern (by the way, Prima Games will continue with digital-only releases since it was recently acquired by Asteri Holdings). LTL (talk) 10:25, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe scratch "Big Blin" - I found out that scanning amiibo for a special chamber can give you the "Moblin Chief's Chamber", so that is the most recent in-game reference. LTL (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

LANS art
The official site decorates the page with transparent .pngs, so those definitely exist officially. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:38, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the weird thing is I could not find them on the Nintendo.com media site... I've been going back & forth on the Octorok image you uploaded, if a larger JPG or waiting on finding a high quality PNG is better, but for me personally, I'm waiting for the latter. Results May Vary (talk) 06:44, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Hoi, random banter
If you ever want a series that has gameplay right between Donkey Kong Country and Kirby (especially Kirby 64), check out the Klonoa games. Obscure masterpiece, them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:34, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for letting me know. I'll go look it up :) Results May Vary (talk) 02:53, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

So...
Truthfully, part of the reason I've been holding off from coming back was because I was waiting to see if Zeldapedia would reopen, but since it's been nearly a month now, I think it's safe to assume that the Zeldapedia fork and the Triforce Wiki merge have both been called off. I apologize for the bad advice. LTL (talk) 00:02, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I forgive you. None of us saw this coming, and it was a learning experience. I'm trying to make up for this since we've all faced some disappointment. What I'm really hoping is a compromise for both Zelda Dungeon and Triforce Wiki to enter, with Zelda Dungeon as the fansite and Triforce Wiki as the wiki. We're almost at 200 articles, making it reach that qualifier Results May Vary (talk) 01:36, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Oracle of Ghini
So I noticed the Oracle of Seasons page lists Ghini as "Ghost," yet has "Green Ghini" as a character. Guide inconsistency? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:18, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * No I just could not find a source for that name so i just went off Zelda Dungeon's name. I dont like to be inconsistent, this was just a draft, as i was getting tired near the end of it Results May Vary (talk) 00:25, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Oracle Old Men
I'd consider them the same as the "door repair charge" guys from the first LoZ. Their graphics are reused from unused graphics in LA, and the Oracle games apparently started as a remake of the first game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:11, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Feel free to make the change then Results May Vary (talk) 02:19, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

TSR Oracle game sprites
Hi, when on the Oracle sheets that have a "lighter" and "darker" palette, use the darker ones, as those are the raw colors. The lighter ones are an emulation of screen brightness. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:53, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, thank you for letting me know. I assumed to use the lighter one because of the GBC color. The backlit screen gets adjusted for GBA, further making me think that's what to do Results May Vary (talk) 21:54, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Regarding Scrubs in the Oracle games
Business Scrubs in the Oracle games aren't actually enemies, and appear in various key places, with the bush graphic using whatever palette bushes in the area use. Two enemy Deku Scrubs appear in OoS, and use the same sprites other than being able to face "down" and having a dizzy animation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:36, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * yeah thats why i moved them out of that section. I'm going to need your help on discerning between business scrub/deku scrub. I did find a spritesheet here but I don't know how reliable it is. Results May Vary (talk) 20:43, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Consider using the palette from here. The Oracle games really only had a few palettes in use for sprites; other than the bosses and a few other very specific entities, there was a red one, a green one, an orange one, a blue one, and occasionally the red-and-yellow one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:12, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Blue Wallmaster in Oracle
Is that not a Floormaster? Does the guide specifically call it Wallmaster? ...wonder what the JP guide calls it.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I actually do not know what they're called. The whole thing with Wallmaster (TLOZ) and Wallmaster (ALttP) and the floormaster name is confusing and so i made accident, since i'm rushing to get all these sprites uploaded before bedtime. Since i have to sleep soon, do you know the distinction between the wall/floormasters? i havent grasped that one yet Results May Vary (talk) 06:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * One falls from above, one comes out of the floor and chases. I've played through both games in both orders. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:54, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Titles and identifiers: Length
Due to a small conversation related to this starting on MarioWiki, my emotions over this matter have flared up yet again.

Carpal tunnel syndrome (a difficult if not impossible to cure condition affecting the wrists caused by typing too much in a short period) has affected a very close friend of mine, who happens to be a writer. As such, it is a very personal issue to me. As such, I prefer to minimize completely excessive typing. As such, I have low tolerance for having to type out the same title over and over again for identifiers when the subtitle (which is the only part that's unique anyways) works perfectly fine and including the not-unique-at-all "supertitle" or whatever is just wearing my wrists out even more. You know how my wrists feel after typing out a 13,000+ character page over a singular entity, after having to hit my "e" and "t" keys extra to have them actually parse regardless of how many times I fix them? Extremely. So I'd prefer to not worsen that with a straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back. Let's avoid completely unnecessary redundancy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

OK, I got a little hot-blooded there, but I stand by my base point. I think I should be able to use title identifiers sans the "The Legend of Zelda" bit. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:01, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I never said we're not allowed to. I just recommend typing the full titles. If someone wants to type only the identifiers, I am ok with that. Results May Vary (talk) 13:18, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Palace
The Japanese script actually lists "Palace" as "Shinden," which following A Link to the Past would be rendered mostly consistently as "Temple" in the English translations. As such, thy are technically the same type of place as, for instance, the Eastern Palace/Temple and the Temples in OoT. The only real difference is the "putting item at end of dungeon" thing, and that's really just AoL's dungeon system. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:33, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I thought official media lists the Zelda 2 palaces as, well, palaces. And yeah, palace and temples are pretty much the same locations in the Zelda games Results May Vary (talk) 06:36, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

ALttP/FS
I think we should have articles for "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Game Boy Advance)" and "The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords," with "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past/Four Swords" being over the multicart that contains them both. It's like the "superpacks" the GBA had for Crash, Spyro, and Harry Potter, just without a prior individual release on that system and with very slight interaction between due to the Palace of the Four Sword criteria. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:49, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That is a good idea, lets stick with that, kind of like how we handled the GameCube's OoT compilation (p.s. I was just thinking of making the superpack pages on crash/spyro wikis...) Results May Vary (talk) 20:50, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll probably be joining the Crash wiki at some point. By the way, regarding the sprite, it actually does have a lighter palette...look at "normal" at the bottom of the sheet. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:58, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Artwork (again)
Yeah I'm on an artwork uploading binge right now. I was in the midst of collecting TAoL art and preparing to upload, actually.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:24, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you a lot for that. I didnt realize you hadn't uploaded them yet, haha. Results May Vary (talk) 06:25, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, I'll leave you to sort out the artworks. I admittedly have been uploading the artwroks from jpg's that Hylian pi gave me, so mine are probably lower quality. Excuse the mistake there too (and I should be going to bed soon)... Results May Vary (talk) 06:26, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * You and me both, I have an early day tomorrow XD. I guess I should leave the OoT ones to you since you seem to have found a good source for transparent ones there. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:45, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Speaking of, could you get a .png of Octorok's OoT artwork? The one in A&A inexplicably seems to have a piece cut out from it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:42, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure, see File:Octorok OoT artwork.png for the upload Results May Vary (talk) 04:45, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks ^^ Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
 * NP, I'll probably try and add the rest of the OOT images soon. Results May Vary (talk) 05:22, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
 * All right. I'm mostly waiting for that to see which from A&A don't have a .png counterpart (and as such can be uploaded without needing deleted later). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:28, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Plural of Keese
This is apparently inconsistent, so I thought I'd make sure: in the Prima guide for Link's Awakening DX, is "Keese" or "Keeses" the plural form of Keese? LTL (talk) 04:01, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It's Keese. I'll quote page 29, on the section of the Bottle Grotto: "Defeat the two Keese (be wary of the Blade Traps) and the door to the north will open." Results May Vary (talk) 04:05, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Final Fantasy
Well, Square definitely saw themselves as a rival to The Legend of Zelda and Dragon Quest if the dig at Link and Erdrick in the original Final Fantasy is any indication. I forgot what review picked up on this, but it's probably no coincidence that The Legend of Zelda and Dragon Quest both end with rescuing the princess, whereas in Final Fantasy, it's only the first task. It's as if the game is saying, "Let Link and Erdrick rescue the princess; you have much bigger things to do!" Also, I always thought that Black Mages looked a little too close to the original Wizzrobes for comfort. Though on a semi-related note, there is this old interview with Shigeru Miyamoto and Enix's Yuji Horii where they talk about the then-upcoming "Zelda 3" and Dragon Quest IV. According to it, the Fairy spell from The Adventure of Link was conceived as a female party member in Zelda 3, and the game is described as having some different ideas from how A Link to the Past ended up (and was, supposedly, "more or less" finished in 1989, so maybe it supposed to be a launch title). Apparently, Miyamoto planned for Zelda 3 to have a Link(-like) fighter, a magic user, and a girl. This setup happens to sound an awful lot like Square's Secret of Mana (the Mana series is itself a loose spinoff of the Final Fantasy series based on The Legend of Zelda elements, especially the first game, Final Fantasy Adventure). Miyamoto also rather confusingly goes on a tangent about Shigesato Itoi while mentioning his Zelda 3 concepts, hinting that Itoi was the original writer for the game, so something seems to have happened during development that caused the existing story and possibly gameplay to be reworked. LTL (talk) 10:45, 21 May 2020 (MDT)
 * Nah, what I'm suggesting is that Square might have paid attention to this 1989 interview featuring their nearest competitors and taken note of the fact that the final version of A Link to the Past discarded these concepts, and borrowed them for their next Zelda-inspired Mana game. Of course, I can't prove that's what happened. It's just a hunch. It could easily be a coincidence since Miyamoto's idea of the fairy-like party member having a reconnaissance role isn't in it. LTL (talk) 11:21, 21 May 2020 (MDT)

Re:coming days
Thanks for letting me know (and I appreciate the promotion!). In case of some data loss, is it a good idea to hold back on edits until the transition? & zeldawiki.info has grown on me - will it be a redirect when it moves to the triforcewiki.com domain? LTL (talk) 19:42, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

Grungy Octorok
Affirmative; I'm the same person as Koopa con Carne, but I figured I needed a Zelda-themed persona for this place. Thank you for greeting me and for letting me know of that Mario quiz!

One question: is the autoconfirmation process here the same as on Mario Wiki? Grungy Octorok (talk) 14:07, 14 November 2020 (MST)

Kirby
Not to get off-topic, but what happened with WiKirby? I (somehow) am a Patroller there, so if you want me to, I can have a word with the admin, depending on circumstances. (BTW, also wanted to say that I've lately started to see things your way in regards to an off-NIWA wiki - good job forming the Gaming Wiki Network.) LTL (talk) 11:11, 30 December 2020 (MST)