User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick/archive 1

Welcome here. I just figured out a better monobook layout for the wiki. Castaway2000 (talk) 05:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Is that why it's suddenly green? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah. It's better this way, in my opinion. I was tryign to change the bright yellow quickly Castaway2000 (talk) 05:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Welcome
Welcome to the wiki Doc Results May Vary (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Ya Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I wonder if Doomhiker is going to join. I told him about triforce wiki but he hasnt responded. Maybe he's upset zelda archive was closed off to editing? Results May Vary (talk) 00:54, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Forking

 * What do you mean by that? I moved the content off zelda.shoutwiki.com entirely. The whole site is off, and all the content not from hylian pi on zelda archive is preserved here. He gave me the pages and images to preserve here Results May Vary (talk) 01:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, hylian pi created those, so i didnt move them off, since he wants to keep zelda archive up as a personal project Results May Vary (talk) 01:49, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Zoras
I'll go move it back then Results May Vary (talk) 02:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Since when was naming Canon?
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/2nd_Potion See the notes section: "This item is also referred to as the Water of Life in the manual.[2] However, because the term in the game itself take precedence over it, this term is not considered Canon." ... Results May Vary (talk) 22:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Special:WhosOnline
Hi, I added a Special:WhosOnline on recent changes, just like the one Mario Wiki has (porplemontage helped get it working) Results May Vary (talk) 17:18, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

2nd Potion / Life Potion
Should they be the same or separate articles? I cant seem to decide Results May Vary (talk) 20:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, so then do we merge them under a single entry on The Legend of Zelda article? I think they're called Water of Life in the later games Results May Vary (talk) 20:17, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The Zelda Collection guide lists it as Water of Life as well as the manual. I'd personally just merge them under Water of Life... Here's some links to some Zelda pdf guides--i've saved some in case the original link goes down: https://archive.org/search.php?query=zelda%20guide Results May Vary (talk) 20:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

OoT GCN?
Hi, if we were to make a title for Ocarina of Time Master Quest (as a disc), what should we name it? It's already really confusing trying to distinguish between Master Quest as a mode and the disc itself... Results May Vary (talk) 02:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Opinion on Zelda Archive
Hi Doc, what's your opinion on Zelda Archive? Personally i didnt like the gray layout or the MS paint feel to the site, and that hylian pi closed it to editors. That's why i went through all this effort to get this wiki up for everyone Results May Vary (talk) 01:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Also tbh, i'm glad that Zelda Wiki went to gamepedia, so it gives us a better opportunity to improve on what they got wrong, as in justification for starting a new wiki. Also, why does Zelda wiki have a blue background? Makes no sense Results May Vary (talk) 01:25, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Timeline..
Hi, so how would we go about the whole timeline controversy in the Zelda series? I'd personally not add all these "canon/non-canon" titles all over the wiki, especially since each game page can list the timeline that it falls under. Results May Vary (talk) 01:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

OoT Characters
I'm busy adding all the characters into the Ocarina of Time article. It's pretty confusing to try and find a good, convenient list of every minor character and how to best sort, organize the information (whether it's by shopkeeper, six sages, or non playable characters with few lines of dialogue). How would you do it personally? Results May Vary (talk) 16:19, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Gender removed
I removed the gender part as per your suggestion. As you've noticed on the wiki, I take in user suggestions on what to implement and what to remove; doesnt mean they're my boss :P. Results May Vary (talk) 23:54, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw. The "view recent changes" thing is nice for seeing when changes have been made without having to refresh constantly or expand the list hugely through auto-updating when a lot of similar changes are made in sequence. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Mario Wikia/FANDOM
have you ever been there? It's a pretty laughable wiki Results May Vary (talk) 05:06, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * First time I went there I was probably 10 or so and I was wondering "wait what even is this?" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Degu/Dig
That would make sense, considering Digdogger splits into smaller "Dogger" Unira (well, Mini Digdoggers), and most of the similarly-named enemies have a noticeable size difference. Although Degrock (Trinexx) doesn't appear to be that much bigger than Jeakrock (Helmasaur King), despite also apparently having the same Japanese prefix, and neither does the Digtitart / Big Manhandla from Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures (though the ordinary Testitart / Manhandla doesn't appear in those games to compare it properly). Maybe a translation note can be added along the lines of "the fictional degu is possibly a portmanteau of the Japanese deku and English big"? It's a lot better than having no explanation for it. LTL (talk) 14:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess that makes sense with Trinexx being the boss of Turtle Rock (on Death Mountain...with falling rocks), but then I'm not sure why else the Helmasaur King's Japanese name would be similar. Anyway, a glossary can work as long as editors are made sure to stick to observable facts about what the subjects have in common. LTL (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

How is the wiki?
How is Triforce Wiki working out for you? are you enjoying it? Results May Vary (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * What's your favorite game franchise? Mine is Donkey Kong :P Results May Vary (talk) 00:15, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Link's gender needing citation
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Link They added a citation to Link's gender to prove that he's a male. Also, the voice actors are listed on separate page, and a voice actor from an ALttP commercial one had me laughing: https://zelda.gamepedia.com/List_of_Voice_Actors#Other Results May Vary (talk) 00:28, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Inside_the_Deku_Tree "It is also the second dungeon to take place inside of a tree, the first being Level 1 of The Legend of Zelda. However, that dungeon was presumably a dead tree, so this dungeon is also the first to take place in a living being." I'm almost in the mood to start a bjaodn-y section at the moment Results May Vary (talk) 03:27, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah thats why i said I felt like it. i won't actually do it--it alrady doesnt look good that i'm laughing at some of their writing openly (like here). Results May Vary (talk) 04:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Futubasha
It has a Nintendo copyright, so it would seem so. LTL (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Triforce Page Issue
Alright, problem fixed. I removed all references to the timeline. Thank you for pointing that out. ArchagentEverlasting (talk) 8:15, 17 May 2019 (PST)

Re: Palettes
Alright, sorry about that "variant" mistake, Doc. Thank you for teaching me things as we go along--I thought the word to avoid was sub-species. Also, I ddint know the Swordsmen and Knights were the same character -- this is exactly the reason why I've been needing help on this project, as even i'm confused with names, especially of the earlier games (since there was less media to refer to official names).

On a sidenote, do you like the Bot page? I worked hard at it Results May Vary (talk) 00:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Crash Wiki?
Hi Doc, just letting you know I can possibly afford a domain to host an independent Crash Bandicoot wiki for you. Would you like for me to buy it? Results May Vary (talk) 22:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Save your money for what you need it for. Right now I'm looking for a Summer job, and don't know if I could juggle that as well. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:43, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I just went ahead and bought the crashbandicootwiki.com domain, and the spyrowiki.com domain. I'll see what i can do with both.. Also, nice that we have 64 articles now haha Results May Vary (talk) 01:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh my. Heh. I'm currently weathering a rather rough bit of a storm, it kept me offline a lot yesterday. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Here is the first page of Crash Bandicoot Wiki: https://crashbandicootwiki.com/wiki/Crash_Bandicoot_(franchise) . Earlier today i worked on the design & reused the background image from April Fools 2017 "The Wumpa Fruit". Racing/Party games to be added (as well as cancelled & mobile games) Results May Vary (talk) 02:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Acheman
Yep, the name "Acheman" can be found in Nintendo Power Volume 4, page 22 (incidentally, the same page uses "Moblin" instead of "Molblin" and "Octarok" instead of "Octorok"). LTL (talk) 16:13, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Dark Black Shadow Link's shadow
I guess it depends on if you consider the Shadow/Dark Links to be incarnations of the same character concept or not. I was initially thinking of two articles: one for Dark Link as a single character (as in Zelda II and Ocarina of Time) and another for Shadow Link as several copies (as in Oracle of Ages and Four Swords Adventures). The rationale there would be that the former is usually suggested to be the manifestation of Link's dark side and the latter are usually depicted as more general clones. Even then, it isn't a perfect solution because the Shadow Links in A Link Between Worlds are fought with a Zelda II palace remix in a clear homage to the original one, and it's not clear if the Links in A Link to the Past/Four Swords are Shadow Links or Dark Link using the Four Sword, which sort of blends both ideas together. That, and NES Remix 2 refers to the Zelda II one as Shadow Link (though it's Link's Shadow in the NES Game Atlas) and Hyrule Warriors refers to them as Dark Links, so the names would have some overlap. Overall, the simplest solution would be to treat the Shadow Link article as we do the Link article. LTL (talk) 15:35, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Big Blin is Oyablin (オヤブリン), but Stone Blin / Boss Blin is "Oyabun" (オヤブン). LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Lost Hills
It seems it was originally unnamed since it comes from the Maps and Strategies foldout that came with the NES version, which did not come with the original Disk System release. Supporting this, an old man mentions the Lost Woods ("Forest of Maze"), but the Lost Hills is only referred to as the "mountain" in the hint for it. Additionally, the guides don't appear to have a special name for it. However, there was an equivalent for the Family Computer re-release, and the overworld map location reads 「まよいの丘 」 (Mayoi no Oka), which is likely a reverse-translation. LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Checking that in the Switch version would be as simple as changing the system language, but I found list of locations here. Looks like none of them are Tabantha Wilds (タバンタ秘境). LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Dodongo Snake
Here's something that may be of interest: in the Japanese Link's Awakening guides, the name of this creature is Dodongo, but in concept artwork released in Hyrule Historia, it's. LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Eyegore Statue
There's some crossover, but I'm leaning slightly towards distinguishing them to offer a more unique interpretation. I'd say Eyegore Statue refers to the hopping ones from Four Swords and The Minish Cap, and Four Swords Adventures' Eyegore, while resembling them, nonetheless has a different design and don't seem to be stone statues. The decorative statues from A Link to the Past don't seem to be living statues (seikizō), so I wouldn't say they would count either. LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Refresh my memory - what were the Eyegores/statues like in the Oracle games? LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I see, though I'm not sure if they were really meant to be Eyegores. If you want to make a third (maybe part conjecture) article for miscellaneous Eyegore-like statues, would "Rocklops statue" from page 123 of the A Link to the Past Nintendo Power guide work? LTL (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The Link's Awakening statues are listed as "EYE GUARDS" on page 101 of the Nintendo Power guide, but just a "statue" in a hint in the DX version. It's also plainly described as a statue on page 80 and even has artwork that more closely resembles the original Eyegore (which is on Zeldapedia's page), although the text underneath describes the Hinox miniboss. I don't know if they were initially meant to be the same thing, but the Eyegores in A Link Between Worlds have a similar design to the Link's Awakening statue sprite and Eyegores are apparently known as Eye Guards in the A Link to the Past/Four Swords Player's Guide, so I think it's safe to group them together since the naming inconsistency is probably in part due to real Rocklops/Eyegores not appearing in Link's Awakening. In terms of Japanese guides, the Rocklops statue is referred to as 「アイゴールの像」 (Aigōru no zō, Eyegore statue) on page 101 of the second part of the Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide, and it doesn't seem to have a special name in Yume o Miru Shima guides. I don't have any real preference how the subject is split, but it at least looks like differentiation exists between the statues and the real ones, with the statues themselves having variance and being less clear. LTL (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * That settles the Oracle name, though yes, it seems like it's more for specific behavior. There are the lines "The Eye of Deceit won't affect you, Link. I'm sure of it!?" and "I heard there's a terrible trap called the Eye of Deceit..." that only appear in the Oracle of Ages text dump, but I don't know the context they're in. The Oracles of Seasons/Ages Nintendo Power guide calls them either "statues" or "eye statues". Also, I remembered I have the Four Swords Adventures Nintendo Power guide, so I checked it. They're named "Eyegores" but described as "statues" on both pages 71 and 72. So it seems like at some point, it became rather nebulous. About the Zelda Wiki / Zeldapedia, I figured that would happen sooner or later since, from what I've been able to gather, the goal of Wiki's buyout of Gamepedia is to eventually merge them under FANDOM. While the post does claim that a full merge won't happen, the fact that it's being entertained looks like Zelda Wiki is (maybe forcibly) sticking with Gamepedia and abandoning the principles of NIWA, so their honorary position as part of it should be put under serious question once merging starts happening. If the only thing Mario Wiki has in common with Zelda Wiki anymore is that Dark Horse copied from them, I believe that should be the point to have to disassociate. As an aside, while I completely agree that a fresh start is the best way to ensure quality, I'm worried that the name "Triforce Wiki" just won't be able to compete with Zelda Wiki. Once we get some momentum going, I think Results May Vary‎ should rebrand the wiki as "The Legend of Zelda Wiki" or something along those lines. It does have the zeldawiki.info domain name, and a similar name didn't stop Wikia's Mario Wiki. As long as it gets the Zelda series name in there, it should attract the search results needed to help secure its future. LTL (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Fire Bago-Bago
As far as I can tell, the only source for the name "Fire Bago-Bago" is The Legend of Zelda: Encyclopedia. What do you think should be done there? LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * 「ファイア・バゴバゴ」 I believe, but I'd be in favor of keeping it with Bago-Bago since we don't know if NintendoDREAM made it up. LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Naming Hierarchy Policy
Hi, I'm thinking of making a naming hierarchy policy that's the same as how Mario Wiki does it. What should I include in it? Results May Vary (talk) 18:51, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Source tier
Mario Wiki's current source priority does list in-game and manuals at the same level, but in actuality, in-game text is a tier above game manuals. It was an admin decision, and it also states that "the game's version takes precedence" in cases where there is an inconsistency with the manual. That's just assuming the policy still applies here since we have a chance to do stick to it or deviate from it, but that's up to rmv, though the aim of Triforce Wiki is to have a Zelda wiki in the same style as I understand it. In regards to the name itself, I'm referencing online text dumps and videos to read the script quickly and it's "Skeleton Knight" in both the SNES and GBA versions. The GBA version revised much of the text to be more accurate including some of the telepaths, so if there was an error, there was an opportunity to change it Stalfos Knight, which is left out of the GBA manual. For what it's worth, Zelda Wiki also makes note of Skeleton Knight but, because of Art & Artifacts, "any other term is not considered Canon." LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, the second name comes from the equivalent Japanese line (interestingly, the same change from kenshi to knight was also made in The Adventure of Link in-game). I disagree, though - while Nintendo has never done a full-on Zelda retranslation, they still correct obvious inconsistencies in re-releases (e.g. Prince Darkness "Gannon", eastmost penninsula, the flute, seven wise men, etc.). Another thing about prioritizing a manual over the game is that the original manuals tend to not get re-released with their games, and when new manuals are made, it will sometimes include its own corrections (like removing Ganondorf Dragmire and Mandrag Ganon). Unless they look up a wiki (as we know Dark Horse does), most players are increasingly going to know the names from their own playthrough over a publication. Overall, my opinion is that I don't see a reason to change up the way article titles are done in this series. But as I say: that's up to rmv. LTL (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but the fact remains that the phrase is interpreted as a name in localization. How about this: do we know which name is used in the A Link to the Past/Four Swords Nintendo Power guide? I imagine that would be the most reliable recent source to use. LTL (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Least Favorite NIWA Wiki?
Is Zelda Wiki your least favorite NIWA wiki? What's your second least favorite, if that's in first? Results May Vary (talk) 01:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't reliably say, I mean I only go to like 2 of them. I go to Wikirby occasionally, but Kirby's FANDOM wiki is much more exhaustive. Smashwiki is probably on my lower liking, due to its orientation to a specific section of that franchise's fandom it is and how unfriendly the terminology it uses is to outsiders. How was 12-year-old me supposed to know what a "buff" or "nerf" was when I first visited? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I've edited WiKirby before. It has over 3,000 article now, so it's definitely catching up to Kirby FANDOM, kind of like formidable rivals by this point Results May Vary (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Anything to get away from intrusive ads is good by me. The amount of different Nintendo franchises I play is surprisingly low. I only got into Zelda because I liked Link's Awakening DX on an online emulator years ago, after I had tried the first game. LA is so much more beginner-friendly. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:32, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The big problem with WiKirby for me is its default layout. I went as far as to develop a Monobook skin for them (which was successfully added), but the WiKirby Classic skin is just uncomfortable & hard to adapt to. It should be a secondary option, but sadly nobody was on board with that--at least people can decide to switch to Monobook on there, so. Also FANDOM is about more than just intrusive ads--there's them forcing changes on wikis without community input, which is definitely not good, among other things Results May Vary (talk) 01:35, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * What even is "FANDOM?" Is it some sort of corporate enterprise? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:40, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * No, Wikia's the company--they just renamed their eponymous Wikia service to FANDOM, in order to attract more traffic or become more social media-y or what knows what else Results May Vary (talk) 01:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Spruced Up the Place a Bit
Hi Doc, I spruced up the place a bit. I expanded upon the sidebar (based on super mario wiki's), added a Link icon next to the username, and expanded The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, even going as far to specify that Toon Link is only applicable to the Super Smash Bros. series (he is "Link" in the main series, including TWW, PH, and ST). Results May Vary (talk) 21:33, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw the Lunkhead sprite in the upper right (named him that in that ALBW playthrough I used to expand the info yesterday). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:39, 6 June 2019 (UTC)