User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick/archive 1

Welcome here. I just figured out a better monobook layout for the wiki. Castaway2000 (talk) 05:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Is that why it's suddenly green? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah. It's better this way, in my opinion. I was tryign to change the bright yellow quickly Castaway2000 (talk) 05:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome to the wiki Doc Results May Vary (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Ya Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I wonder if Doomhiker is going to join. I told him about triforce wiki but he hasnt responded. Maybe he's upset zelda archive was closed off to editing? Results May Vary (talk) 00:54, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Forking

What do you mean by that? I moved the content off zelda.shoutwiki.com entirely. The whole site is off, and all the content not from hylian pi on zelda archive is preserved here. He gave me the pages and images to preserve here Results May Vary (talk) 01:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah, hylian pi created those, so i didnt move them off, since he wants to keep zelda archive up as a personal project Results May Vary (talk) 01:49, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Re: Zoras

I'll go move it back then Results May Vary (talk) 02:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Since when was naming Canon?

https://zelda.gamepedia.com/2nd_Potion See the notes section: "This item is also referred to as the Water of Life in the manual.[2] However, because the term in the game itself take precedence over it, this term is not considered Canon." ... Results May Vary (talk) 22:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Special:WhosOnline

Hi, I added a Special:WhosOnline on recent changes, just like the one Mario Wiki has (porplemontage helped get it working) Results May Vary (talk) 17:18, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

2nd Potion / Life Potion

Should they be the same or separate articles? I cant seem to decide Results May Vary (talk) 20:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Ok, so then do we merge them under a single entry on The Legend of Zelda article? I think they're called Water of Life in the later games Results May Vary (talk) 20:17, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

The Zelda Collection guide lists it as Water of Life as well as the manual. I'd personally just merge them under Water of Life... Here's some links to some Zelda pdf guides--i've saved some in case the original link goes down: https://archive.org/search.php?query=zelda%20guide Results May Vary (talk) 20:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

OoT GCN?

Hi, if we were to make a title for Ocarina of Time Master Quest (as a disc), what should we name it? It's already really confusing trying to distinguish between Master Quest as a mode and the disc itself... Results May Vary (talk) 02:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Opinion on Zelda Archive

Hi Doc, what's your opinion on Zelda Archive? Personally i didnt like the gray layout or the MS paint feel to the site, and that hylian pi closed it to editors. That's why i went through all this effort to get this wiki up for everyone Results May Vary (talk) 01:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Also tbh, i'm glad that Zelda Wiki went to gamepedia, so it gives us a better opportunity to improve on what they got wrong, as in justification for starting a new wiki. Also, why does Zelda wiki have a blue background? Makes no sense Results May Vary (talk) 01:25, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Timeline..

Hi, so how would we go about the whole timeline controversy in the Zelda series? I'd personally not add all these "canon/non-canon" titles all over the wiki, especially since each game page can list the timeline that it falls under. Results May Vary (talk) 01:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

OoT Characters

I'm busy adding all the characters into the Ocarina of Time article. It's pretty confusing to try and find a good, convenient list of every minor character and how to best sort, organize the information (whether it's by shopkeeper, six sages, or non playable characters with few lines of dialogue). How would you do it personally? Results May Vary (talk) 16:19, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Gender removed

I removed the gender part as per your suggestion. As you've noticed on the wiki, I take in user suggestions on what to implement and what to remove; doesnt mean they're my boss :P. Results May Vary (talk) 23:54, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I saw. The "view recent changes" thing is nice for seeing when changes have been made without having to refresh constantly or expand the list hugely through auto-updating when a lot of similar changes are made in sequence. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Mario Wikia/FANDOM

have you ever been there? It's a pretty laughable wiki Results May Vary (talk) 05:06, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

First time I went there I was probably 10 or so and I was wondering "wait what even is this?" Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Degu/Dig

That would make sense, considering Digdogger splits into smaller "Dogger" Unira (well, Mini Digdoggers), and most of the similarly-named enemies have a noticeable size difference. Although Degrock (Trinexx) doesn't appear to be that much bigger than Jeakrock (Helmasaur King), despite also apparently having the same Japanese prefix, and neither does the Digtitart / Big Manhandla from Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures (though the ordinary Testitart / Manhandla doesn't appear in those games to compare it properly). Maybe a translation note can be added along the lines of "the fictional degu is possibly a portmanteau of the Japanese deku and English big"? It's a lot better than having no explanation for it. LTL (talk) 14:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I guess that makes sense with Trinexx being the boss of Turtle Rock (on Death Mountain...with falling rocks), but then I'm not sure why else the Helmasaur King's Japanese name would be similar. Anyway, a glossary can work as long as editors are made sure to stick to observable facts about what the subjects have in common. LTL (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

How is the wiki?

How is Triforce Wiki working out for you? are you enjoying it? Results May Vary (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

What's your favorite game franchise? Mine is Donkey Kong :P Results May Vary (talk) 00:15, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Link's gender needing citation

https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Link They added a citation to Link's gender to prove that he's a male. Also, the voice actors are listed on separate page, and a voice actor from an ALttP commercial one had me laughing: https://zelda.gamepedia.com/List_of_Voice_Actors#Other Results May Vary (talk) 00:28, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Inside_the_Deku_Tree "It is also the second dungeon to take place inside of a tree, the first being Level 1 of The Legend of Zelda. However, that dungeon was presumably a dead tree, so this dungeon is also the first to take place in a living being." I'm almost in the mood to start a bjaodn-y section at the moment Results May Vary (talk) 03:27, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah thats why i said I felt like it. i won't actually do it--it alrady doesnt look good that i'm laughing at some of their writing openly (like here). Results May Vary (talk) 04:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Futubasha

It has a Nintendo copyright, so it would seem so. LTL (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Triforce Page Issue

Alright, problem fixed. I removed all references to the timeline. Thank you for pointing that out. ArchagentEverlasting (talk) 8:15, 17 May 2019 (PST)

Re: Palettes

Alright, sorry about that "variant" mistake, Doc. Thank you for teaching me things as we go along--I thought the word to avoid was sub-species. Also, I ddint know the Swordsmen and Knights were the same character -- this is exactly the reason why I've been needing help on this project, as even i'm confused with names, especially of the earlier games (since there was less media to refer to official names).

On a sidenote, do you like the Bot page? I worked hard at it Results May Vary (talk) 00:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Crash Wiki?

Hi Doc, just letting you know I can possibly afford a domain to host an independent Crash Bandicoot wiki for you. Would you like for me to buy it? Results May Vary (talk) 22:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Save your money for what you need it for. Right now I'm looking for a Summer job, and don't know if I could juggle that as well. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:43, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I just went ahead and bought the crashbandicootwiki.com domain, and the spyrowiki.com domain. I'll see what i can do with both.. Also, nice that we have 64 articles now haha Results May Vary (talk) 01:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh my. Heh. I'm currently weathering a rather rough bit of a storm, it kept me offline a lot yesterday. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Here is the first page of Crash Bandicoot Wiki: https://crashbandicootwiki.com/wiki/Crash_Bandicoot_(franchise) . Earlier today i worked on the design & reused the background image from April Fools 2017 "The Wumpa Fruit". Racing/Party games to be added (as well as cancelled & mobile games) Results May Vary (talk) 02:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Acheman

Yep, the name "Acheman" can be found in Nintendo Power Volume 4, page 22 (incidentally, the same page uses "Moblin" instead of "Molblin" and "Octarok" instead of "Octorok"). LTL (talk) 16:13, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Dark Black Shadow Link's shadow

I guess it depends on if you consider the Shadow/Dark Links to be incarnations of the same character concept or not. I was initially thinking of two articles: one for Dark Link as a single character (as in Zelda II and Ocarina of Time) and another for Shadow Link as several copies (as in Oracle of Ages and Four Swords Adventures). The rationale there would be that the former is usually suggested to be the manifestation of Link's dark side and the latter are usually depicted as more general clones. Even then, it isn't a perfect solution because the Shadow Links in A Link Between Worlds are fought with a Zelda II palace remix in a clear homage to the original one, and it's not clear if the Links in A Link to the Past/Four Swords are Shadow Links or Dark Link using the Four Sword, which sort of blends both ideas together. That, and NES Remix 2 refers to the Zelda II one as Shadow Link (though it's Link's Shadow in the NES Game Atlas) and Hyrule Warriors refers to them as Dark Links, so the names would have some overlap. Overall, the simplest solution would be to treat the Shadow Link article as we do the Link article. LTL (talk) 15:35, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Big Blin is Oyablin (オヤブリン), but Stone Blin / Boss Blin is "Oyabun" (オヤブン). LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Lost Hills

It seems it was originally unnamed since it comes from the Maps and Strategies foldout that came with the NES version, which did not come with the original Disk System release. Supporting this, an old man mentions the Lost Woods ("Forest of Maze"), but the Lost Hills is only referred to as the "mountain" in the hint for it. Additionally, the guides don't appear to have a special name for it. However, there was an equivalent for the Family Computer re-release, and the overworld map location reads 「まよいの丘」 (Mayoi no Oka), which is likely a reverse-translation. LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Checking that in the Switch version would be as simple as changing the system language, but I found list of locations here. Looks like none of them are Tabantha Wilds (タバンタ秘境). LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Adding to this, on page 219 of Hyrule Encyclopedia (Chapter.3 Archives, which is probably the part of the book least meddled with since it has a lot of development materials), a portion of the Hyrule field map layout draft from the original game looks like it shows a different name for the Lost Hills: 「迷いの道」 (Mayoi no Michi, Lost Roads) - incidentally, Zelda Encyclopedia didn't pick up on this and just went with Lost Hills. LTL (talk) 19:21, March 10, 2021 (MST)

Dodongo Snake

Here's something that may be of interest: in the Japanese Link's Awakening guides, the name of this creature is Dodongo, but in concept artwork released in Hyrule Historia, it's Dodongo Unagi. LTL (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Eyegore Statue

There's some crossover, but I'm leaning slightly towards distinguishing them to offer a more unique interpretation. I'd say Eyegore Statue refers to the hopping ones from Four Swords and The Minish Cap, and Four Swords Adventures' Eyegore, while resembling them, nonetheless has a different design and don't seem to be stone statues. The decorative statues from A Link to the Past don't seem to be living statues (seikizō), so I wouldn't say they would count either. LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Refresh my memory - what were the Eyegores/statues like in the Oracle games? LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I see, though I'm not sure if they were really meant to be Eyegores. If you want to make a third (maybe part conjecture) article for miscellaneous Eyegore-like statues, would "Rocklops statue" from page 123 of the A Link to the Past Nintendo Power guide work? LTL (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

The Link's Awakening statues are listed as "EYE GUARDS" on page 101 of the Nintendo Power guide, but just a "statue" in a hint in the DX version. It's also plainly described as a statue on page 80 and even has artwork that more closely resembles the original Eyegore (which is on Zeldapedia's page), although the text underneath describes the Hinox miniboss. I don't know if they were initially meant to be the same thing, but the Eyegores in A Link Between Worlds have a similar design to the Link's Awakening statue sprite and Eyegores are apparently known as Eye Guards in the A Link to the Past/Four Swords Player's Guide, so I think it's safe to group them together since the naming inconsistency is probably in part due to real Rocklops/Eyegores not appearing in Link's Awakening. In terms of Japanese guides, the Rocklops statue is referred to as 「アイゴールの像」 (Aigōru no zō, Eyegore statue) on page 101 of the second part of the Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide, and it doesn't seem to have a special name in Yume o Miru Shima guides. I don't have any real preference how the subject is split, but it at least looks like differentiation exists between the statues and the real ones, with the statues themselves having variance and being less clear. LTL (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

That settles the Oracle name, though yes, it seems like it's more for specific behavior. There are the lines "The Eye of Deceit won't affect you, Link. I'm sure of it!?" and "I heard there's a terrible trap called the Eye of Deceit..." that only appear in the Oracle of Ages text dump, but I don't know the context they're in. The Oracles of Seasons/Ages Nintendo Power guide calls them either "statues" or "eye statues". Also, I remembered I have the Four Swords Adventures Nintendo Power guide, so I checked it. They're named "Eyegores" but described as "statues" on both pages 71 and 72. So it seems like at some point, it became rather nebulous. About the Zelda Wiki / Zeldapedia, I figured that would happen sooner or later since, from what I've been able to gather, the goal of Wikia's buyout of Gamepedia is to eventually merge them under FANDOM. While the post does claim that a full merge won't happen, the fact that it's being entertained looks like Zelda Wiki is (maybe forcibly) sticking with Gamepedia and abandoning the principles of NIWA, so their honorary position as part of it should be put under serious question once merging starts happening. If the only thing Mario Wiki has in common with Zelda Wiki anymore is that Dark Horse copied from them, I believe that should be the point to have to disassociate. As an aside, while I completely agree that a fresh start is the best way to ensure quality, I'm worried that the name "Triforce Wiki" just won't be able to compete with Zelda Wiki. Once we get some momentum going, I think Results May Vary‎ should rebrand the wiki as "The Legend of Zelda Wiki" or something along those lines. It does have the zeldawiki.info domain name, and a similar name didn't stop Wikia's Mario Wiki. As long as it gets the Zelda series name in there, it should attract the search results needed to help secure its future. LTL (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

The names in the Oracle of Seasons/Ages guide are generic, but they're just "statues" the vast majority of the time, with "one-eyed statues" used twice and "eye statues" used once to refer to the "Eyes of Deceit" leading up to Twinrova. The specific names aren't perfect either, since apparently "Eye Guard" from Link's Awakening directly refers to the fireball-shooting one and the "Eye of Deceit" directly refers to the Room of Rites variant. I guess, if we're going by in-game naming, Eye of Deceit would be the closest one for a separate article. By the way, any idea why it would only be mentioned in the Oracle of Ages text dump and not the Oracle of Seasons one? Is it possibly an oversight caused by the fact that it's in the linked game? LTL (talk) 03:49, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Right, so the Eyegore Statue thing I mentioned below is actually not the result of Dark Horse but rather Nintendo Dream; on page 161, the blue (ALBW), red (ALttP & ALBW) and green (ALttP & ALBW) Eyegore colors are listed separated, but page 160 lists the Majora's Mask, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and The Minish Cap Eyegores together. Hyrule Encyclopedia does not mention 「アイゴール せきぞう」 (Aigōru Sekizō, Eyegore Stone Statue) as an alternative name despite being its in-game Japanese name in The Minish Cap. It also describes the Eyegores as 「石像」 (sekizō, stone statue), despite the ones from Majora's Mask looking like alien creatures and the Tatl description and character profiles on page 129 of the first Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide also not mentioning them being or looking like statues at all. Hyrule Encyclopedia would seem to ignore the inanimate Eyegore statues or maybe confuse them for each other. My assessment is that Hyrule Encyclopedia is an okay source for names in lieu of the original source, but as far as organization goes, it's very much influenced by Nintendo Dream's interpretation. That said, I can check my copy of the Four Swords+ Shogakukan guide at a later time to see which name it uses (although yes, it does use "Moldorm" in place of Deviland, but more on that later). As for Cadence of Hyrule's Gargoyle, it is 「ガーゴイル像」 (Gāgoiru Zō, Gargoyle Statue), followed by color in parenthesis. LTL (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

Good question. While I would still prefer using the original sources when available, I'll say that Hyrule Encyclopedia is actually worse than Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. in many ways since the original Japanese version was openly tainted with the ideas and theories of Nintendo Dream writers who couldn't restrain themselves whereas Shogakukan has a much better track record and is more professional in their coverage. Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. also presents the information on a game-by-game basis, and even when it changes something like "Kuromame" to "Keronpa Ball", it has basis in Nintendo material ("Keronpa" was its name in Super Mario 64 DS, and its Super Mario 64 asset appears to be "wan_ball", hence "Keronpa Ball"). For reference, Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. were published in Japanese by Shogakukan while Hyrule Graphics and Hyrule Encyclopedia were published in Japanese by Nintendo Dream (these books also have mostly different credits), although Hyrule Graphics doesn't seem as bad as Hyrule Encyclopedia, and all four of these books were published in English by Dark Horse, although Hyrule Historia seems to be the least affected by trends they'd exhibit later. As for what SmokedChili claims, I thought the phrase "It has a relative, the Scattering Bloober," was a translation error, but I can confirm that the Japanese manual uses a similar phrase. Interestingly, the Nintendo Power guide merges them as "Blooper Nanny" despite splitting Boss Bass and Big Bertha, while Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia keeps Bloober with kids and Scatter Bloober separate but keeps Big Bertha merged with Boss Bass. The Blooper Nanny article begs reoganization in light of this, but right now, I am unable to check which appearances are Kozure Gessō and which are Chirashi Gessō. You can wait until I'm able to check Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. or ask Mister Wu since he also has a copy if you'd like that done a lot sooner (if you have Super Mario Maker 2 on Switch, just change your system language to Japanese). Now why he decided to call attention to that there instead of the Blooper Nanny talk page, I haven't the foggiest. To be frank, I'm not a fan of how he waited until just after the Big Cheep Cheep proposal finished to restart his discussion, even though he had one year to successfully convince everyone. It's kind of a headache, but I get the feeling he's preparing a counterproposal, even though he has nothing new since the previous attempts to merge Boss Bass with Cheep Chomp. If he does hit the "Big button", my finger might slip and hit the "Deep button". Consider it mutually assured destruction I suppose. LTL (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

Potentially, although like the Stalfos/Stalchild case, I'd rather wait until the original Shogakukan guide source can be (re)confirmed. That reminds me: I actually contacted shmuplations regarding the Super Mario 64 Shogakukan guide. Very friendly. My first question was if the Japanese term that Takashi Tezuka used to refer to the monkeys was 「おさるさん」 or 「おさる」. It turned out to be 「サル」, which may be a general term but may be because of the internal designation, monky. They were kind enough to provide photographic proof (of page 102) that I didn't ask for, so I figured I'd ask if 「クロマメ」 or 「ケロンパ」 was the name of the fire-spitting black ball, saying I'd be fine with just the page number if it'd be more convenient. Unfortunately, they didn't have their hard copy of the guide with them and might not for another year. LTL (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

My gut reaction is to keep them different, but since there's already so much overlap with the statue, we can do that for now, unless it turns out the inanimate Four Swords ones are identified separately. LTL (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2021 (MST)

Fire Bago-Bago

As far as I can tell, the only source for the name "Fire Bago-Bago" is The Legend of Zelda: Encyclopedia. What do you think should be done there? LTL (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

「ファイア・バゴバゴ」 I believe, but I'd be in favor of keeping it with Bago-Bago since we don't know if NintendoDREAM made it up. LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Naming Hierarchy Policy

Hi, I'm thinking of making a naming hierarchy policy that's the same as how Mario Wiki does it. What should I include in it? Results May Vary (talk) 18:51, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Re:Source tier

Mario Wiki's current source priority does list in-game and manuals at the same level, but in actuality, in-game text is a tier above game manuals. It was an admin decision, and it also states that "the game's version takes precedence" in cases where there is an inconsistency with the manual. That's just assuming the policy still applies here since we have a chance to do stick to it or deviate from it, but that's up to rmv, though the aim of Triforce Wiki is to have a Zelda wiki in the same style as I understand it. In regards to the name itself, I'm referencing online text dumps and videos to read the script quickly and it's "Skeleton Knight" in both the SNES and GBA versions. The GBA version revised much of the text to be more accurate including some of the telepaths, so if there was an error, there was an opportunity to change it Stalfos Knight, which is left out of the GBA manual. For what it's worth, Zelda Wiki also makes note of Skeleton Knight but, because of Art & Artifacts, "any other term is not considered Canon." LTL (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the second name comes from the equivalent Japanese line (interestingly, the same change from kenshi to knight was also made in The Adventure of Link in-game). I disagree, though - while Nintendo has never done a full-on Zelda retranslation, they still correct obvious inconsistencies in re-releases (e.g. Prince Darkness "Gannon", eastmost penninsula, the flute, seven wise men, etc.). Another thing about prioritizing a manual over the game is that the original manuals tend to not get re-released with their games, and when new manuals are made, it will sometimes include its own corrections (like removing Ganondorf Dragmire and Mandrag Ganon). Unless they look up a wiki (as we know Dark Horse does), most players are increasingly going to know the names from their own playthrough over a publication. Overall, my opinion is that I don't see a reason to change up the way article titles are done in this series. But as I say: that's up to rmv. LTL (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Possibly, but the fact remains that the phrase is interpreted as a name in localization. How about this: do we know which name is used in the A Link to the Past/Four Swords Nintendo Power guide? I imagine that would be the most reliable recent source to use. LTL (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Nintendo Badge Arcade badges are untitled, but I could be wrong. The Oracle of Seasons/Ages Nintendo Power guide refers to the blue Stalfos enemies are referred to as "Stalfos Knights" (on page 111). The A Link to the Past Nintendo Power guide also refers to the enemy and boss Armos as "Armos Knight" and doesn't mention Stalfos by name. My take from this is that "Stalfos Knight" may have just been a brief relocalization attempt like Armos Knight before it was dropped rather than an intentional retranslation of Stalfon. LTL (talk) 03:49, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

So I'm playing through Cadence of Hyrule, and the names of enemies are listed when you get a Game Over by them (maybe there's somewhere else they show up later like a bestiary). There are normal Stalfos that lose their shield when hit once, but there are also heavily-armored Stalfos that seem to act as rarer enemies or minibosses. This type of Stalfos is called "Stalfos Knight", so case closed, right? Well, here's the kicker: the game also has a handy option to change your language setting like many other Switch games, and in the Japanese version, it's called 「スタルフォスナイト」 (Sutarufosu Naito) instead of the usual Japanese name for it. Given the new design and the fact that Stalfos also have new varieties for the game (Stalfos Gel, Stalfos Mage, Stalfos Rider...), I have a hunch the developers weren't aware of the previous knights. So, as I see it, this can go one of two ways: we can either make Stalfos Knight (from Cadence of Hyrule) a separate article from Skeleton Knight, or keep them together and rename Skeleton Knight to Stalfos Knight. LTL (talk) 21:23, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Yep, it came out yesterday. I'm playing through and taking my own pictures so I can maybe upload them for later. Some people have already beaten it, but I'm going at my own pace (also because I'm not used to the combat system). The Stalfos Knights in this game look more like souped-up Parutamu than the established ones (I don't believe they show up in the trailers so you may be thinking of the Stalfos with shields), and as for other names, I've noted so far that the ones for Pengator, Skullfish and White Wolfos are the same as the usual Japanese ones (Ice Wizzrobe is 「アイスウィズローブ」 (Aisu Wizurōbu) instead of 「アイスローブ」 (Aisurōbu), but that's apparently its name in newer games like Breath of the Wild), and the simultaneous built-in localizations tell me that the team worked worked closely with Nintendo to keep things in check. It's a bit of a hassle to have to switch the language before every Game Over, but I'll be mindful to do it when I come across something that might be interesting. I'll keep a lookout for Darknut / Iron Knuckle. LTL (talk) 22:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Okay yeah, that's the one that the game refers to as Stalfos Knight. LTL (talk) 23:20, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

I should also note that the way to fight them is actually inverse of the version of the knights from A Link to the Past: you can (must?) place a bomb to make it crumble, then attack its fallen form, although the head is still floating around as an enemy and is known as a "Stalfos Knight Head" (スタルフォスナイトヘッド). Also, enemy Zoras have a new name here: "Evil Zora" (川ゾーラ, "River Zora"). LTL (talk) 23:57, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

That works given the behavioral similarity (I can confirm that you actually don't need a bomb to weaken or destroy them, you just need to hit their side at least, though it helps because their head is frantic, shoots lasers and is actually invincible since it returns to its body when it loses HP), but the helmet seems to be a new design element. Several of the game's enemies also have color variants, and most of them are generically-named: Stalfos Knight and its head are simply "Black Stalfos Knight" (スタルフォスナイト（黒）) and "Black Stalfos Knight Head" (スタルフォスナイトヘッド（黒）). There are also red Zoras, which I was hoping were the game's equivalent of Kū but are called "Eviler Zora" (川ゾーラ（強）, "River Zora (strong)"). Interesting thing about the Zoras was more that the Japanese name is referencing Oracle of Ages despite sea Zoras being absent (the friendly Zoras more closely resemble the typical enemy design); the Zora's Sapphire symbol is shown on enemy camps where there's a Zora present so I'm pretty sure they're still intertwined anyway. About the Shrouded Stalfos, that must be the "Stalfos Mage" (マジックスタルフォス, "Magic Stalfos"), which is one of the new varieties. I did spot the Darknuts and Iron Knuckles, which I think marks the first time they coexist in the same game. In Japanese, Darknuts are known as Tartnuc (タートナック) and Iron Knuckles are known as Ironnuc (アイアンナック), so it's business as usual (even if it weren't, the name "Darknut" might not be totally unknown in Japan since it's used as internal names in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Hyrule Warriors, oddly enough). Both have black variants: Darknut's is "Black Darknut" (タートナック（黒）) and Iron Knuckle's is "Iron Knuckle Chieftain" (アイアンナック（首領）). I'll mention some other things I've noted in my playthrough. Shadow Link (シャドウリンク) appears as a type of miniboss, with a pale skin tone design, and there is a new Shadow Zelda (シャドウゼルダ). The original Wall Master is back as "Wallmaster" (ウォールマスター), so the article may need to be readdressed as newer sources don't use a space. Eyeless Lava Bubbles, of all things, appear as an enemy under the name "Podoboo" (溶岩バブル, "Lava Bubble", presumably due to Zelda Bubbles appearing). Soldier enemies make an appearance and are now known as "Guards" (剣兵士, "Sword Soldier") of several colors, with the red ones known as "Sword Guards" (剣兵士（赤）, "Sword Soldier (red)") and "Bow Guards" (弓兵士) also appearing in green and blue varieties. The Ball and Chain Soldier appears as an enemy as well and is now known as a "Ball 'N Chain Guard" (鉄球兵士). Also, there's a "Guitar Guard" (ギター兵士) going with the game's theme, similar to the "Sonic Wizzrobe" (ソニックウィズローブ). And we know now that it's supposed to be "Kargaroc" (カーゴロック), not Kargarok. The Cane of Somaria is in, and in Japanese, it's back to its original name instead of the "Somasoa" one from the Four Swords edition. Overall, I didn't notice any glaring misrepresentations; the closest (besides the Japanese names of Electric Wizzrobe and Electric Keese, which are just newer names anyway) is that the Red Potion is now called the "Health Potion", but Japanese uses the usual name (赤いクスリ). In terms of the game's actual writing, the credits mentions English and Japanese writers at Brace Yourself Games and Spike Chunsoft, with Nintendo handling the localization to other languages and even having an "English Translation" credit (no mention of a Japanese translation so it seems co-written). LTL (talk) 14:20, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Supposedly, Nintendo of America at the time had more involvement with the CD-i games than they'd care to admit, but I'm not sure if that rumor is true. Also, a small addendum: I think the red "Sword Guards" (剣兵士（赤）) are meant to be the "base version" of the enemy in this game even though they seem rarer since they lack the shields of the "Green Guards" (剣兵士（緑）) and "Blue Guards" (剣兵士（青）), which would explain why the Japanese names are more clearly connected. No sign of the dagger, spear, or bomb versions from what I can tell. LTL (talk) 23:48, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Stalfos Knight seems more or less resolved thanks to Cadence of Hyrule, but I did recently get my hands on The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past/Four Swords Player's Guide, and interestingly, it actually does refer to them as Skeleton Knights throughout the Ice Palace coverage on pages 70, 72 and 73. On the subject of the source tier, should "Moldorm (A Link to the Past)" be renamed to "Mini-Moldorm" since it's the most recent guide form, there are already several Moldorm articles, and "Mini Moldorm" is fairly common and even in the A Link to the Past/Four Swords Player's Guide? Or should we leave it alone due to The Minish Cap? How about Moldorm/Swamola? LTL (talk) 18:28, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

There was the Tail Key (along with Tale Keyhole and Tail Cave) in Link's Awakening that depicts a Mini Moldorm, so I wonder if it was a conscious translation in that game or if the translators overlooked the reference to the enemy. Regarding Monblin: I suppose so, though I don't know about the Ocarina of Time 3D Prima guide. LTL (talk) 23:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Least Favorite NIWA Wiki?

Is Zelda Wiki your least favorite NIWA wiki? What's your second least favorite, if that's in first? Results May Vary (talk) 01:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I can't reliably say, I mean I only go to like 2 of them. I go to Wikirby occasionally, but Kirby's FANDOM wiki is much more exhaustive. Smashwiki is probably on my lower liking, due to its orientation to a specific section of that franchise's fandom it is and how unfriendly the terminology it uses is to outsiders. How was 12-year-old me supposed to know what a "buff" or "nerf" was when I first visited? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I've edited WiKirby before. It has over 3,000 article now, so it's definitely catching up to Kirby FANDOM, kind of like formidable rivals by this point Results May Vary (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Anything to get away from intrusive ads is good by me. The amount of different Nintendo franchises I play is surprisingly low. I only got into Zelda because I liked Link's Awakening DX on an online emulator years ago, after I had tried the first game. LA is so much more beginner-friendly. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:32, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

The big problem with WiKirby for me is its default layout. I went as far as to develop a Monobook skin for them (which was successfully added), but the WiKirby Classic skin is just uncomfortable & hard to adapt to. It should be a secondary option, but sadly nobody was on board with that--at least people can decide to switch to Monobook on there, so. Also FANDOM is about more than just intrusive ads--there's them forcing changes on wikis without community input, which is definitely not good, among other things Results May Vary (talk) 01:35, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

What even is "FANDOM?" Is it some sort of corporate enterprise? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:40, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

No, Wikia's the company--they just renamed their eponymous Wikia service to FANDOM, in order to attract more traffic or become more social media-y or what knows what else Results May Vary (talk) 01:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Spruced Up the Place a Bit

Hi Doc, I spruced up the place a bit. I expanded upon the sidebar (based on super mario wiki's), added a Link icon next to the username, and expanded The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, even going as far to specify that Toon Link is only applicable to the Super Smash Bros. series (he is "Link" in the main series, including TWW, PH, and ST). Results May Vary (talk) 21:33, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw the Lunkhead sprite in the upper right (named him that in that ALBW playthrough I used to expand the info yesterday). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:39, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Tartnuc and Soldier

Interesting observation, but as far as the Kamigami to Triforce Shogakukan guide is concerned, they're soldiers. LTL (talk) 03:49, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Moldorm vs. Moldworm

At this time, I can only confirm that they're 「モルドアーム」 in the Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide, but that may be worth looking into since the name of one other enemy from the game, Kodongo, apparently had a minor change in the Four Swords version guide. LTL (talk) 22:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Wall Master CDi

You can find issues here - it's in Dutch but they claim to be referencing English materials (oddly enough, one of them formats the Sakado boss as "Ironknuckle" and another as "Iron Knuckle", which didn't become the norm until Ocarina of Time). I don't know about the Wall Master variant or Sancromy, at least from the page I referenced. LTL (talk) 22:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Expandable option

Hi, Metalex thinks we could have an expandable option for the infoboxes, like in the Goron article. An example of something expandable is like with the Kremling Krew article on Super Mario Wiki. Results May Vary (talk) 05:08, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Yup, I made that suggestion in an edit summary on the Zora page. I'd be curious if it could be made so the sections that would be expanded could be picked and chosen each time, so a section with 30 or so items is expandable while one with only 1 or 3 in the same infobox always shows all items. If it's not possible or just too much of a pain to do, don't worry about it, just curious. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:14, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Wait Mario Wiki always uses expandable? I'd only want expandable for very large lists. If theres no better option for the meantime, then i guess we'd have to use that expandable option for all Results May Vary (talk) 05:18, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

That's not what I meant, I mean it's an all-or-nothing thing. If "expandable" is set to "yes," then every parameter that could conceivably need expandability in any context (for groups, for example, the members and member species, and for species, the notable members, derived species, and related species) get the show/hide function added to them, which can be bothersome if one section has 12 and another has only one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:30, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

"Zelda Wiki"

In case you're wondering about all these "zelda wiki" terms i've been placing in pagetitle, main page, and such, it's to help with google search results. this isnt because i'm like FANDOM but it's so that the option is more out there, especially from having more distinction due to the closure of zeldapedia. Results May Vary (talk) 21:07, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Nut and Knuckle relations

I think as far as The Adventure of Link goes, Iron Knuckle definitely started out as a substitute of Darknut and was basically the same thing in everything but name, but later appearances definitely gave them unique fighting styles and designs, with Darknuts being more typical sword-wielding knights and Iron Knuckles being heavily-armored ax-wielders or (in the case of Cadence of Hyrule) bare-fisted. Stalfon may be somewhat similar but it's still identifiably Stalfos and appears alongside them in the next game, whereas the same cannot be said of Darknut and Iron Knuckle. Plus, if we go into timeline shenanigans (as Ocarina of Time was written with the Imprisoning War in mind, A Link to the Past itself being a prequel to the NES era), it gets a bit loopy if the reader tries to determine enemy variants in a chronological sense, which can seemingly change at any time. Overall, it's probably safer to categorize it as a relative than a variant, and I was also thinking we maybe do the same for Wall Master / Wallmaster since they also never appear together in the same game. LTL (talk) 02:05, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Main page & community portal

Alright Doc, so I've added a community portal and main page to Triforce Wiki. As the other administrator, what do you think? Do you like how it looks? The news section is pretty barebones however, so hopefully we'll get that sorted out. Results May Vary (talk) 22:30, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Pretty good, I'd say. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:32, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Cadence screenshots

Oh, I guess that's just how the Switch takes screenshots natively. LTL (talk) 18:28, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Yep, it's digital only, though I imagine a "definitive" physical release might happen later if the game gets a series of support updates (and it would seem like the game already anticipates that since it is labeled "v1.0.0" on the title screen). The game is a lot smaller than Super Mario Odyssey if you're curious though, at ~677MB compared to ~5.7GB. And I really shouldn't be surprised that TSR ripped into the graphics already, but that makes things more convenient. LTL (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Re:Ganon and Ganondorf's alternate forms

My rationale is similar to when there was a conscious effort to limit mentions of "derivatives of derivatives" on the Mario enemy pages, but yeah, the Breath of the Wild sequel might change our understanding of Calamity Ganon. LTL (talk) 23:27, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Messenger

Hey there. Mases here, from Zelda Dungeon. Do you use messenger at all. Discord, Skype, Slack, Facebook, or any other way to contact you to chat? Mases (talk) 06:40, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I have a Discord, but currently I'm exhausted from a long day of lawnwork (which will be resumed tomorrow. I have an enormous lawn.) Whatcha interested in talking about? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:44, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Actually I'd be interested in knowing your discord as well, doc. I know metalex123 wanted more direct communication with you as well Results May Vary (talk) 03:14, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd be willing, but I'd prefer to not post it in a publicly-visible place for probably-rather-arbitrary reasons. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:33, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Good point. I'll give you a hint where to find my handle: Super Mario Wiki Discord channel. I use the same username on Discord as here, Mario Wiki & elsewhere. Results May Vary (talk) 05:12, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Ye, I haven't actually joined that yet either ^-^;; Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:23, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

One Away...

We are one article away from 100? what will the big 100th article be? :O Results May Vary (talk) 05:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, regarding numbers like that, I think it would be appropriate to make a Rupee article. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

True, I was thinking of starting a Rupee article some time considering it's one of the major subjects without an article Results May Vary (talk) 06:14, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

OK, I made it, but it still appears to say 99...? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:34, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes the cache takes time to refresh. Should say 100 now Results May Vary (talk) 13:29, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Sure took a while, I refreshed a while after and even then it hadn't changed. It has now, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:52, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

I'll probably ask porplemontage how the cache instantly refreshes on mariowiki.com Results May Vary (talk) 20:51, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Armos Knights

Doc, how would you go about making a page on Armos Knights? That's another confusing one Results May Vary (talk) 12:28, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Regarding dungeons of the same name - what about dungeons that are in completely different locations like Koholint Island's Turtle Rock, or dungeons that have the same name in certain languages like the Dark World's/Lorule's Dark Palace and Ocarina of Time's Shadow Temple having the same name in Japanese? LTL (talk) 18:40, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, I guess if the Spirit Tracks versions of Hyrule and Hyrule Castle aren't split-worthy, then it's fair enough to extend that treatment to other places. However, about that Lost Woods example: in addition to technically having different spelling, "mayoi no mori" is already a stereotypical area in Japanese media (with the Mario franchise having at least three) that it's conceivable that "fushigi no mori" was created as a play on the phrase on two separate occasions. LTL (talk) 23:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Re:Soldiers vs Guards

If this were the Super Mario Wiki, I'd say that the naming policy tells us that the in-game versions take precedence, so we'd be using the recent spinoff to call them Guards. However, I'm still not sure if you want Triforce Wiki to stick to the same policies, so giving them the Soldier title might be preferable if you want more page consistency overall (with Guitar Guard being the odd one out). I'd say the colors, like other enemies, don't need to be split. I'll also add that English guides earlier than A Link Between Worlds only refer to them generally as soldiers, guards, or knights interchangeably (except for the Ball and Chain Trooper, presumably since it started out as sort of a miniboss). I'd say they should be split by weapon type since, unlike Moblins where the weapons can be somewhat game-dependent, the weapons have given them a reliable behavior and Japanese label. LTL (talk) 18:28, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I believe that's correct. LTL (talk) 23:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I'll have to double-check, but I believe they move exactly the same and the Blue Guards have the same name regardless if they're holding a shield or not - it's the red ones that are just referred to as Sword Guards. When set to Japanese at least, they're all uniformly called Sword Guards and have their color in parenthesis. Also, in other games, the normal soldiers/guards at least have different blades from the 'Sword' version (it's more of a dagger or shortsword; they're not 'Shield' Guards after all). So yeah, it's a little convoluted, but I'd follow the Japanese names here. By the way, regarding A Link to the Past - do you have any idea if the game's witch is supposed to be Syrup? The fact that Maple's design replaced the witch's assistant in the GBA version seems like a pretty good indication (and on that note, I feel like anything we could have covered in a prospective "witch's assistant" article would be easily covered by the Maple article, since there's really not much else to say about it). LTL (talk) 18:58, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

There is this rather odd quote on page 31 of the A Link Between Worlds Prima guide: "As an inside note, this character appeared in The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, but she was much younger." Though it's referring to Irene's grandmother and not the witch from Lorule, it's most likely hinting at the GBA version of the assistant. Then again, the witch from Link's Awakening isn't referred to as Syrup either according to the remake (which keeps her blondish color from DX). Zelda Encyclopedia apparently does call the witch from A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening Syrup, but I trust that even less than I do Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, and it may have come from Zelda Wiki as well. (Speaking of which, they also claim that "Maple" is in Irene's internal filenames, so the developers probably kept "Mapes" in as a gag after making Irene her own character, but I may check later if there are any references to Syrup.) Overall, I'm leaning towards merging since there's not much that entirely distinguishes them. Back to Guard/Soldier - on page 123 of the first part of the Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide, the different versions of Spear Guard have the same name but have their attack method in parenthesis: 「槍兵士 （突撃）」 for charge, 「槍兵士 （槍投げ）」 for throw, and 「槍兵士 （草むら）」 for bush. By the way, is Archer another name for Bow Guard? LTL (talk) 21:25, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I haven't noticed Archer anywhere, so that's why I removed it from the Bow Guard article. Another thing about the "Witch" is that if that's the setup, there should probably be a disambiguation page or a category for other witches in the series. Also, it doesn't seem to account for the second "Witch" from Lorule (then again, I believe several minor characters have identically-named counterparts in Lorule, so it ought to be decided if they should be split or not). That's just how I feel it should go for now, along with Assistant/Maple, at least until we can gather more information. Regarding Tower of Hera - it's called "Tower of Hera" once by Sahasrahla, "Tower Of Hera" once by the bully, "mountain tower" by a fortune teller, and "MOUNTAIN TOWER" twice during the ending. If you count the GBA version for the SNES article, the location name is "Mountain Tower" when entered. So overall, in-game references for Mountain Tower outweigh Tower of Hera and, if we were splitting same-name places based on location, you could even make a separate Mountain Tower and Tower of Hera article. Anyway, about the Guard: if we consider that basic soldiers are technically not in Cadence of Hyrule, should the name of the article actually be "Soldier" instead? Or, alternatively, should we have them in the same article as friendly Hylian soldiers that appear in 3D games since that's how they seem to be treated in A Link to the Past and Four Swords Adventures, akin to enemy and friendly Zoras? LTL (talk) 13:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

About Ball 'N Chain Guard: in the Link's Awakening remake, scanning amiibo for a special chamber can give you the "Ball and Chain Trooper's Chamber", so that is the most recent in-game reference. LTL (talk) 13:26, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Break & Zelda Dungeon

I've been taking a break from editing here for a while because I'm busy with the DK Wiki merge. Also, I've been a bit worried about telling you this, but Zelda Dungeon wants to merge with us or vice versa (since both wikis dislike Zelda Wiki), and I know that you had reasons why you didn't like Zelda Dungeon. I also don't want to do what Zelda Wiki did and sell out to something (like Gamepedia) without consent from the community. That and the wiki just got hosted like 2 1/2 months ago. I'm actually trying to help them rebrand & fall more in line with Triforce Wiki's vision, as that's what they were willing to do. So yeah, please don't be upset at me. Like I said, I won't pull off anything without you, LTL, Doomhiker, and Archagent's permission. I gave them a list of changes they should make if Triforce ever does consider merging. Results May Vary (talk) 19:33, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Zelda Dungeon's fine, but I'm unsure of my feelings on a potential merge. I think they should be able to keep their neat artwork, I'd just like us to stick with official ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:13, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I actually merged all their fanart to one page, when i asked them, and removed them from mainspace: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Zelda_Dungeon_Wiki:Fanart . Tbh, i don't like their fan transparency to images, which is what we are trying to avoid, but i doubt we'll come to a good conclusion on that... this is tough, i know, his whole reason for approaching us is because according to mases, they've been trying to catch up to Zelda Wiki for years now, and they think it would be more efficient if both wikis combine their resources. i myself am actually unsure about a merge myself Results May Vary (talk) 23:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm open to this idea currently, though I'd like to see what LTL thinks. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:19, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, though I am paranoid about this being an elaborate trick from them. Know what i mean? Results May Vary (talk) 23:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Thaaaaat seems like a stretch. I'm cautious, but I don't think there's any ill will. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, me neither. I just know that me, you, archagent, LTL, and Doomhiker put real love & effort into the wiki. They have a GFDL license, and with all editors' input, they may change to CC BY SA (the license of Triforce Wiki). The name "Zelda Dungeon Wiki" doesnt sound universal enough actually, so thats why i asked if they could rebrand, maybe make their top navbar more condensed like Bulbapedia's. This would make sure that the connection to zelda dungeon isnt lost (they were a little concerned about that). I guess all this time, ZD Wiki has been casual alternative, but is now trying to be more serious, especially with recent wild, crazy events ongoing. Your thoughts? Results May Vary (talk) 23:35, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm honestly unsure, we need to surpass Gamepedia Zeldawiki at some point as they aren't doing their job, but we also need to make sure w keep our own quality up. Anyways, I need to go to the store, so I'll be AFK for a while. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:40, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

The main concern for me is the quality of Zelda Dungeon's articles. Take the Marin page for example. Her page has the problem of citing every single piece of info that does not even need to be cited, it organizes her Link's Awakening appearance poorly, and the rest of her appearances are organized into "non-canon appearances" which is a major red flag. And her page is featured. We should note that our goal is not only to be an independent Zelda Wiki, but a high quality one. Doomhiker (talk) 00:08, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

In that case, it might be better to ask if anyone there instead wants to help expand our own wiki from here. Standards need kept, and if they want to distance from the Gamepedia Zelda Wiki, they need to have better ones than theirs. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:30, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

It's good that Doomhiker mentioned those points. I've checked around the wiki, and due to it being very casual, there was never much of an emphasis on a serious mariowiki-type wiki on their part. We don't want to lose this vision along the way -- we've definitely come a far way. Admittedly I see potential in this idea since it can theoretically help us be a stronger alternative, and so that there's less split in zelda wikis. At the moment a merge was just proposed -- I'm reminding again that i will not go forth with a content merge without them making some content quality changes, and without the final decision from everyone on Triforce Wiki. We are in this choice together Results May Vary (talk) 06:09, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Anyways, in that case, maybe a content merge would not be the best way to go, maybe just a further collaboration, which would also skip the need for any proposal-type thing to have to happen. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:16, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

These decisions really stress me Results May Vary (talk) 06:23, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm just gonna keep doing what I've been doing. By the way, I think the Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule article should be under "King Daphnes," as that is what he is consistently called throughout Hyrule Warriors. Admittedly, this is obviously so as to not flood the text field every time he does something, but it's still a thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:30, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Then should the King of Hyrule article be more about unnamed kings in general? My impression was that the king counted as a character incarnation (like Link, Zelda, Malon, Tingle, etc.). LTL (talk) 21:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Doomhiker brings up a good point, and I figure it's appropriate to add my two cents here as well. One of my concerns with the idea of merging besides possible incompatibilities with the direction and vision is, if a goal of Triforce Wiki is to eventually replace Zelda Wiki's NIWA spot which frankly should have been revoked as soon as Wikia successfully archived Zeldapedia but I digress, I'm not sure if Zelda Dungeon can realistically qualify as an independent wiki since it is apparently owned by a "Dungeon Gaming Enterprises" - so that is maybe worth taking into account. I'm not privy to any internal politics going on with NIWA besides the explanation that Zelda Wiki's position became "honorary" due to being a founding member, but I suspect that replacing them with their longest-running non-FANDOM rival would be a hard sell. I agree that a name like Zelda Dungeon Wiki gives the false first impression that it is more about dungeon walkthroughs or is even a subsidiary of Zelda Wiki and not instead about the series as a whole like what was properly conveyed here, and my informal experience has told me that websites that include a wiki never surpass dedicated wiki sites in popularity. I also can't help but feel a little suspicious because Triforce Wiki is rather small at the moment so I worry that a merge at our current size and numbers would probably look more like a dissolution. However, the decision is ultimately yours. I would like to see Triforce Wiki grow as I see potential in it (as I'm sure we do), but if you also feel like it is too troublesome to maintain, I completely understand if you choose to merge. And if you choose not to do it at least for now, perhaps some sort of friendly affiliate arrangement can still be worked out since we both see Gamepedia as our main competitor? LTL (talk) 21:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Ultimately, I think probably the best thing to do is keep doing what we're doing, and if any individual editors from any other Zelda wiki want to help out here, let them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, everyone can keep editing here like usual. This was just a proposal since i was approached over this and was wondering about the community's feedback, and I do see potential in Triforce Wiki. Thats why I don't want to sell it off. If anything, if Zelda Dungeon ever wanted to come here, or if both wiki sites merged elsewhere (like if porplemontage hosted a zelda wiki), then that would be better option for us. Hopefully Zelda Dungeon isnt upset about our opinion but I think we should take charge of the wiki thing. It's too risky to just relinquish control over the site. Results May Vary (talk) 23:26, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, while it should be your - and only your decision, as you are the person who runs the site, and I feel at the current moment to just have a small affiliation with Zelda Dungeon, just by keeping the link on the sidebar implying "hey you should check out these guys". Doomhiker (talk) 01:26, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

porplemontage

Just letting you know that in case I cannot afford to maintain the wiki's hosting in case it gets too much traffic, porplemontage will be willing to help us take over. I'm glad because we want to make sure this project does not die. I believe we can do this -- we're definitely doing great -- over 100 articles ready with all this hard work! (and these are mostly major subjects as well!) Results May Vary (talk) 15:43, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Zelda Encyclopedia page?

Hi Doc, was wondering if you and LTL were ever thinking of making a Zelda Encyclopedia page, to clarify like this book does here: https://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_Bros._Encyclopedia , especially if zelda gamepedia won't do it just curious as it might be an interesting one to do (since the timeline hyrule hystoria has already been done). by the way, the zelda dungeon wiki merge was cancelled due to conflicting ideas. i'll keep them in the sidebar though Results May Vary (talk) 00:20, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

It should be mentioned, though I've no specific plans for it. I own the book, but have never opened it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:27, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

It's been a while. Do you know if there's any evidence that the Zelda Encyclopedia copied from other Zelda Wikis? Zelda Wiki has a page assuring that the Goddess Collection does not copy from wikis, but I don't think it's proper closure on the issue, considering one of the main reasons why we started this wiki in the first place. Results May Vary (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

That apparently ZE listed ???? as "Hand" for OoA after zeldawiki did so due to it being called "the hand in the toilet" in some thing makes it seem pretty cut-and-dry to me. Could say, they were caught red-HANDed. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:17, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Do you think there's something fishy about the Goddess Collection statement in that link I sent? When they say 'it is extremely unlikely that they would be drawing names created by the fanbase', this is more of a self-promotion. They also single out Zack Davisson as the only person who copied from wikis but there are probably others who did the same.

Also, is it coincidental that Zelda Encyclopedia has a dark blue cover? It's too obvious for me to consider it a coincidence. Results May Vary (talk) 00:24, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I touched on some of this here and elsewhere, but I also want to add that their rationale for "Odolwa's Insect Minions" is either hilariously disingenuous or just plain incompetent. Here is the sentence in question, from page 45 of The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Player's Guide: "If you keep scoring hits, he’ll eventually send out his insect minions to harass you, then drop rocks from the ceiling." In other words, it was just an off-the-cuff description that the writer made for both insect types that a wiki editor morphed into a name for one of them, which would be evident if they were transparent enough to quote it properly. In fact, this can be seen on the Internet Archive by anyone, so it frankly comes across as false gatekeeping or damage control. I do have other suspicions (like how Art & Artifacts labels the witch from A Link to the Past "Syrup" on page 388 despite only having that name in the Oracle games and The Minish Cap), but if they really intend to double down then we may have to make getting a Japanese copy a priority. Not to mention, the treatment of the Japanese Zelda II names in Art & Artifacts is eerily similar to how Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia handled Super Mario Land 2 (i.e. ripping romanized article titles sans macrons). The Encyclopedia cover connection is perhaps a bit too conspiratorial but there is at least some strange defense at play. LTL (talk) 00:59, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Based on all this evidence, we can safely confirm that the Goddess Trilogy cited from fan wikis? Results May Vary (talk) 01:28, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I believe Hyrule Historia itself is fine, but its follow-ups have massive red flags. LTL (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Another problem I immediately noticed with them claiming that Miyamoto and Aonuma being involved is that Miyamoto was not involved in any of the three books but Aonuma was involved with Hyrule Historia (which you believe is the one that is fine). Results May Vary (talk) 01:56, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I almost forgot about that. Something else I find interesting is that two of the translators in Art & Artifacts also worked on Hyrule Historia - one of whom is GlitterBerri (I generally find her translations trustworthy but now I can't help wondering which parts of Art & Artifacts she was responsible for). LTL (talk) 02:59, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:About the King of Hyrule article I'm envisioning

Actually, I could swear we already had a King of Hyrule article - what I was thinking of was the Kingdom of Hyrule article, which is currently more about the Royal Family. I'd say the king is more like a role rather than an incarnation, so that's a good way to handle it, though maybe move some of the information from Kingdom of Hyrule, rename that article to just Hyrule, and briefly mention the named kings but add {{main}} to their sections. LTL (talk) 23:26, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Link's Awakening

Hi Doc, so I've been playing Link's Awakening. Pretty cool how they have some Mario enemies in the game. Now remind me, is it BizHawk that you want me to use for sprite-ripping? When I'm done with the game, i'll expand upon the Link's Awakening and the DX page Results May Vary (talk) 18:42, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

The Knight (guardian) was a temporary name i made because there was a knight (enemy) and a knight (guardian) in page 102 of the nintendo player's guide. here's the Knight guardian entry, for reference: https://i.imgur.com/6J4ggul.png Results May Vary (talk) 21:25, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

OK, so for comparison, what's the enemy? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

I can't seem to find it; chances are that i added it there by mistake. I thought it was me misnaming "Soldier" but looks like i was wrong. Anyway, so is the "guardian" the ball n chain trooper? Results May Vary (talk) 21:38, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is, to my knowledge at least. It may actually have a different name in JP too, but if so I am unaware. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:41, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for fixing up so many names. thats why i asked for your help. thank you :) Results May Vary (talk) 23:15, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

So it's like basically, I try and find the right names for all the characters, items and other subjects, and that tends to get me lost along the way. Know what i mean? That's exactly the reason we have this wiki -- to clear up all the naming confusion, haha. anyway much appreciated for helping me and the wiki with proper naming Results May Vary (talk) 23:23, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I getcha. And np. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:25, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Identifiers

While I get your reasoning I do feel like we should fully spell out the game names, due to removing the "The Legend of Zelda" part is like abbreviating them, which I feel should be avoided, even if the "The Legend of Zelda" part is very common. Doomhiker (talk) 23:33, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I care mostly about not giving people carpal tunnel syndrome with unnecessary typing. Because I've gotten close. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:46, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

They can just copy and paste the title. Doomhiker (talk) 23:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

It still seems really unnecessary in this case when it's just a stock thing. It takes up space and is ultimately unhelpful. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:55, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

It may be something we can consider when we've made enough progress on this we'll have less typing on our hands anyway, but right now, it's just extra work. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:00, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Traps

Regarding the Trap enemies is it safe to say that they are the Spike Traps of the Zelda franchise, with there not being anything to say otherwise? Example of a Trap in another game, even if the image is from Gamepedia. Doomhiker (talk) 00:42, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

"Trap" and "Blade Trap" are definitely the same thing. I'm not sure which name we should use, but it's probably Trap. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:30, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

LA JPN names

Where do you get the Japanese names for enemies in LA such as Goomba? Doomhiker (talk) 18:31, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

The other Zelda wikis are generally competent in that regard, and in this case it's blatantly obvious anyways. If there's any question, LTL can probably be asked to cross-reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:17, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Stubs

So doomhiker suggested that before we create new pages, we expand upon the stubs. What do you personally think of this idea? I know you have pretty much played all the Zelda games (judging from how comprehensive your edits are), and i havent played all of them. this means articles lik Triforce, Princess Zelda, Link: i won't be able to fill in all the blanks (i did for Triforce on z1/z2 earlier though). Results May Vary (talk) 04:45, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

That's generally my thought. I've played all the "main" ones except for Four Swords Adventures for GCN. However, I have played neither of the "HD" rereleases or the GBA ALttP. It's also been a while since I've played the DS games, so my edits on them may also seem a tad lacking in comparison to my other ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:49, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Re: Zelda II palettes

Should we go re-rip them & upload over the original ones? Results May Vary (talk) 16:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

TLOZ board game

We already have a page for the board game. Doomhiker (talk) 23:53, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

As the board game is in Japanese, we can just use that name and use about template where needed. I would prefer to not have the identifier be the creator unless necessary. Doomhiker (talk) 00:16, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Minor technical problems

In case you're experiencing some problems, such as some pageloading & whatnot, I need to apologize for that. Seems like the host is having a bit of technical difficulties, such as page loads. I make sure to backup the wiki locally (including its sql), in case you're ever worried about losing your work. I mentioned earlier that I have a backup of someone who will host in case something goes wrong (porple). Results May Vary (talk) 04:12, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

ALttP names

Thank you for helping out on that, I felt bad because getting the names correct can be pretty tricky, so I didn't want to mislead anyone with the names that I added. Remind me, how did you find a good source for the ALttP names? Results May Vary (talk) 19:28, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Varies. I look to see if there's a citation for the Player's Guide anywhere else, and also some of LTL's edit summaries. I'm still not sure on all of them, especially when the soldiers get involved. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:48, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Once again, thank you for fixing the color/names on the sprites. It's always emabrassing when i get it wrong, despite my best efforts... Uploading all those sprites is a big task, so I was bound to make some mistakes involuntarily... By the way, mind adding the Shudan Bubble sprite? i cant find what that one is Results May Vary (talk) 05:15, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

It's just four Bubbles in a clump Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:54, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Images?

Hi Doc, I noticed you don't often add images on articles that you create. May I suggest to add the {{image}} template on articles that do not have images (or not enough of them)? Results May Vary (talk) 20:55, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Re:Pyramid (of Power)

Personally? Not particularly - it's in a different location - but if we're taking the approach that locations of the same name are iterations/incarnations of the same place, then yes, they have the same name: 「ピラミッド」. LTL (talk) 21:25, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Link to the Past/Awakening Bubbles

How do we know that those enemies are meant to be Bubbles? Given their behaviour and different names. Also, where was the Fire Faeries name used? Doomhiker (talk) 18:12, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Which page? Also, where did the GBA names come from? Doomhiker (talk) 18:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Re:Whole titles in the middle of body paragraphs

Sorry about that. I just feel that full titles should be used when possible to prevent use of abbreviations, as personally just saying "Awakening" for example feels awkward too. Still, I am fine with using abbreviations despite my preference for full titles, so I will wait for a consensus to be made before continuing to use full titles in the middle of body paragraphs (of course, I will only continue if the consensus is to continue). I'll ask RMV. Doomhiker (talk) 21:15, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

I still don't like just using "Link's Awakening", and it is still removing part of the full title. Doomhiker (talk) 21:30, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

I think this is an instance in which a compromise should be made. I personally prefer using full titles because names like Ocarina of Time can be ambiguous and even confused with the instrument if worded a certain way. However, while I do think it should be a policy, I do not necessarily think it should be enforceable because Doc has said before that it can be tiring to type out the full title. I would moreso make this a case that if someone does not fill out the full title, another could fill it in themselves or even simply type "the game" instead of the game's name. Let me know what you think about my idea. Results May Vary (talk) 00:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

About Page

I have made an about page. I hope you like it -- a lot of it has my perspective in it. It feels too preachy when a lot mentions me. As the other administrator of the wiki, do you want to add some of your input and story to the wiki, especially since you technically were the original founder? Thanks Results May Vary (talk) 06:21, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

If you add anything, I do ask to keep history relating to drama with other Zelda wikis to a bare minimal (like Zelda Archive, which hylian pi wanted to forget about Triforce's involvement with). I already mentioned Zelda Wiki's FANDOM acquisition in the paragraph but that is because it was a main reason behind why the wiki was created, without getting into the personal aspects Results May Vary (talk) 06:29, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Would that include my feelings of ZeldaWiki's overuse of Encyclopedia? Sorry for the late response, I'm in the midst of ripping pre-rendered sprites from a GBA game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

I actually mentioned that part in the About page, since it actually is a big reason why the wiki was founded. So no, it doesn't include that part -- I mostly meant the whole Zelda Archive incident or directly insulting other wikis. Results May Vary (talk) 15:10, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Sword and Shield pages

Okay, so this one will need careful planning. If we ever are to make an article on swords and shields, how will we cover swords as a generic item versus the swords that are used by Link? Also, I noticed your talk page is getting long, so I moved over the Archive template from Super Mario Wiki if you want to use that. Results May Vary (talk) 01:17, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Probably like how fireball items are covered on MarioWiki. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:01, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Re: Identifiers and length thereof

I was thinking of it looking like this: Kreepy Krow page on Mario Wiki. What i'm also trying to say is you dont have to fill out the full article -- the redirect identifier, such as (Link's Awakening) or (A Link to the Past), is there for a reason. Do you not like putting in links that are redirects to the full page? I'm just curious to hear why you still don't want the full titles, as i thought i made a compromise with the shorter identifiers as redirects to the full name identifiers Results May Vary (talk) 03:46, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Actually to be honest, let's start a proposal system for this, since there's already debating over the article identifiers. I don't want to make all the decisions -- the community should also have a say in things. Results May Vary (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah but there's currently only like 5 consistently-active members. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:56, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

That's true. Do you want to add links to the identifier redirects instead while writing articles (e.g. Wallmaster (A Link to the Past) instead of Wallmaster (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past))? Results May Vary (talk) 03:59, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I'd prefer that it just be the identifier itself, the long ones bloat the hidden text anyways and in some cases may take unnecessary room when written in infobox "related"-type sections. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:20, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Pikit

What are your thoughts on Pikit? I notice that its entry in the A Link to the Past article already links to Like Like, but in the GBA version, Pikits and traditional Like Likes coexist. I know the SFC guide refers to them as such, but it may also be worth looking into how the GBA guide handles it (it did change Kodondo after all). LTL (talk) 15:53, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Unless further info comes up, I'd see it as sort of like the various Poes in OoT. It's likely they were trying to move Like Like in a new direction entirely, which didn't pan out due to LA only using the original; note how LA mixed elements from the original and ALttP (most visible with the Moblins/Pig Warriors) which continued into the Oracle games (like with Anti-Faerie/Whisp). OoT's Like Like's ability to extend itself around comes across to me like attempting to put a bit of the Pikit's ability in it, and then TP's Deku Like seems like a callback so obvious I'm surprised it has a different name. Adding the original to the revised version is ultimately a shoddy way to justify the Shield Shop existing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Dug up some info. The Shogakukan guide for A Link to the Past/Four Swords gives the name 「ライクライク（亜種）」 on page 21. Despite the name Like Like, the kanji is literally the Japanese word for subspecies. Additionally, to touch on the things mentioned here: 「モルドワーム」 is still 「モルドアーム」 on page 21, 「コドンド」 is now 「コドンゴ（赤 ）」 on page 24, 「ケルビン」 is now 「ワンワン」 on page 29, 「ビーモス」 is still 「ビム」 on page 31, Four Swords Igor statue is 「アイゴール石像」 on page 147, Four Swords Stalfos is 「スタルベビー」 on page 151, Four Swords Igor is 「アイゴール」 on page 152, and the Dark Links are 「ダークリンク」 on page 175. Personally, I don't really see what makes these Stalchildren over Stalfos (the game did release in North America months before Japan as well), but I'll let you do with this info as you see fit. LTL (talk) 19:06, May 23, 2021 (MDT)

Reissue titles in sections

By which I mean something like this. I just don't think mentioning reissues in sections is wholly necessary since, in all cases, it's either the same name as the original (e.g. Link's Awakening on Switch - how would it even get represented in the section header when it releases?) or the original title plus some specific identifier like "3D" or "HD". For the most part, everything that's in the original can be reasonably assumed to be in the original, and major differences can just be noted where appropriate. It's not like the Mario franchise where there are a few more variables and something like the title Super Mario World 2 can be removed from Super Mario Advance 3 (although I have been considering bringing the same topic to their attention since such cases are still rare, but it would be quite a chore to go through all of it at this point). Overall, it just bloats the title. Do you think we can change our approach on this one? LTL (talk) 15:53, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm fine with having just the original version's title so long as the subject at hand isn't only relevant to the reissue. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:10, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I personally prefer just the main title of the reissue. For example: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask / Majora's Mask 3D Results May Vary (talk) 20:26, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

What about The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past / A Link to the Past/Four Swords? LTL (talk) 12:04, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

I think we can use the normal one, aside from perhaps Like Like and the bosses with an upgraded version in the GBA version. Though that being said, it's still A Link to the Past; "/Four Swords" is the name of the multicart, of which there were several on GBA. For instance, the "superpacks" for the Crash and Spyro games, and there's also one with the first three Harry Potter games. The only real difference is that Four Swords is multicart-exclusive (until the anniversary reissue). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:30, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, this is an interesting debate. I'd like to consider ALttP and FS as separate, especially from FS's DSi re-release. However this would eventually get confusing. It wouldn't look nice to write out The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past / A Link to the Past / Four Swords at all. I'm pretty sure Mario Wiki covers ports/remakes in the same section as the original. Else, by listing every reissue in the title, that would look insanely long Results May Vary (talk) 19:34, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Well as Doc says, A Link to the Past/Four Swords would be more of a compilation than a remaster, so it wouldn't be part of the section header. Still, suppose Link's Awakening for Nintendo Switch had an altered title, or someone wanted to represent it over the original and DX versions? It would make such headers needlessly long. Plus, there's no telling how future reissues will handle it. So, if the reissue must be in the header, I'd prefer we use a format like The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask/3D for now, since the titles just aren't transformative enough to relist in the same space. LTL (talk) 12:46, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

I agree, so like GBA-specific info can just be mentioned in a specific paragraph of like a The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past section. How should we handle sections like The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages? Those are also very long Results May Vary (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

The way we currently do (Seasons/Ages) is official via Smash. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:26, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Link article

What do you think of it thus far? I'm trying to base it on the Mario article on Mario Wiki. Results May Vary (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Re:Flying Mushrooms

I noticed that too, but I think it's just a header inconsistency on the website since it also refers to Goomba in plural. The Prima guide for A Link Between Worlds refers to it as Zirro singular. LTL (talk) 10:30, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but also notice that there are clearly multiple Octoroks, yet it is referred to in singular. I believe the A Link to the Past Player's Guide mentions it once, where it and Pikit are plural. LTL (talk) 23:44, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

I suppose, but there's still room for error here. The names of the Zirros assets used by the website are https://media.nintendo.com/zelda/links-awakening/assets/img/characters/foes-slide-bomber.jpg and https://media.nintendo.com/zelda/links-awakening/assets/video/characters_foes_bomber.mp4 (the rest mostly line up except for the Moblin Chief assets referencing King Moblin), suggesting that they were going to use the name from the Link's Awakening Player's Guide before someone noticed fairly late that it was different in the A Link to the Past Player's Guide and didn't bother or have the time to check other sources. I just think we should play it safe for now and stick with guide over site in this case, considering singular Zirro has been established and used throughout a guide, versus only one instance of a Zirros listing. Besides, zelda.com is the same domain that recently revived the forgotten Dragmire quagmire after all. LTL (talk) 06:11, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

I assume that none of the people who knew better than to blindly follow zelda.com are the same editors who much later did exactly that to Dark Horse (if you look at some of the recent moves like CiaoCiao, they even claim that "CiaoCiao is referred to as YipYip in all versions of Link's Awakening prior to Link's Awakening for Nintendo Switch," which is a pretty incredible way to avoid admitting that Zelda Encyclopedia is ever at fault). But yes, for Link's Awakening info, it would be Bomber and King Moblin, with Spike Roller as the title exception for obvious reasons; the article would still be Zirro because the A Link Between Worlds Prima guide was made post-Nintendo Power. LTL (talk) 06:42, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. The wording of the Mario Wiki policy is a little vague, but in practice, any Prima Games guide after the end of the Nintendo Player's Guide series has the same weight (some Mega/Super to Big enemies for one thing). LTL (talk) 06:59, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Which book exactly? (Also a correction - King Moblin is referred to as the "Moblin Chief" via amiibo-unlocked special chamber, so that would get priority over King Moblin and Big Blin.) LTL (talk) 13:26, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

I totally forgot about that. Thankfully for us, YouTube has some pretty in-depth flip-throughs. The name changes I've noticed are as follows: Pig Warrior is Boarblin, Cue Ball is Hydrosoar, D. Poon is Hardhit Beetle, the blue Camo Goblin is Blue Goo Specter, and Dekudon is Avalaunch; Zirro(s) isn't mentioned. Technically, I believe the Dreamer Art Book would otherwise be lower priority than the Link's Awakening Player's Guide; however, since it actually comes with copies of the game, should we consider it akin to an instruction booklet? Also, note that the Japanese version does not list any names. LTL (talk) 21:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree, these names are an improvement. I'm not sure how the All-Stars booklet is handled since I don't think it's relevant as a naming reference, although the manual itself is used as the current source for Roto-disc. That aside, the fact that they were added to the English version tells me that a localizer may have been thinking, "Well, with Prima indisposed, we need to put the new names somewhere," so I think in this case we should just treat them as more recent regardless of source priority. We can bend the rules a bit since we're not Mario Wiki, after all. LTL (talk) 23:59, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Dungeon layout

Doc, if we're going to describe every room of a dungeon in the layout section and the path that Link should take, how would we got about it? As far as I know, the rooms are unnamed Results May Vary (talk) 19:00, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Well it would depend on the situation. We could use "the (size) room with the (thingy)," "the adjacent room," "the room to the (direction)," "the room through the (door type)," lots of ways. In Deepwood's case, "the room with the barrel" seems like a no-brainer for example. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:31, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

I would prefer not guiding the player, and just saying what each room is and what is inside it. For example, in a dungeon with a spire, we would describe the spire's layout and then describe its side room, referring them as "the room on the bottom of the spire", "the room on the right part of the middle of the spire", etc. Doomhiker (talk) 21:09, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

True, we're not a strategy guide, and in the case of many dungeon items, thy can generally be collected in a number of orders (particularly with keys). I think areas that are more straight-up linear (more commonly at the ends of dungeons) could us it to some extent, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Encyclopedia oddities

Hey, so in the interest of expanding the Encyclopedia article, I actually checked it out recently and noticed some stuff of note in the Enemies & Monster database. Remember how Gamepedia said that Horsehead is "not considered Canon" due to Art & Artifacts? Well, on page 185, there's an entry for Horsehead with the text "See Mazura." Sure enough, on page 192, the entry for Mazura lists Horsehead as an alternate name and states "Mazura, also known as Horsehead," right in the first sentence. Helmethead is also given similar treatment. And to think, if they were a little more attentive, this wiki might not exist. Another thing of note is that, while I don't have the Japanese version on hand to compare and confirm, the database just seems to have been totally rearranged with random priority going to English localization. An example of what I mean is this: on page 184, the Helmasaur entry mentions Hiploop and Iron Mask as alternate names, yet Helmaroc King and Helmasaur King are separate. Things like Bubble and Anti-Fairies (169), Dodongo and Dodongo Snake (175), the Gyorg boss and enemy (183), and Wallmaster (211) are together among others, yet Sand Crab (201) and Lobarrier (190), Like Like (189) and Pikit (197), Darknut (173) and Chief Soldier (170), Shadow Link (202) and Dark Link (173) etc. are separate. On page 205, the entry for Spiked Beetle states: "A spiny character that originally appeared in the Super Mario Bros. series." and there's even a stray Shy Guy redirect to Mask-Mimic on page 203, but yet on page 209, Thwomp (Thwimp) from Link's Awakening DX and Oracle of Seasons is grouped together with the Four Swords Adventures Thwomp, which is almost assuredly not the same subject. And then there's page 193, where Moldorm reads like it was taken directly from Gamepedia: you've got Moldorm aka Mini-Moldorm grouped together with the NES, Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass and Skyward Sword ones, Moldorm (Boss) aka Big Moldorm not including the NES one, and Moldworm from The Minish Cap. Page 176, Eyegore is split by color but Eyegore Statue is not (or mentioned for that matter except that they are described as statues). And Big Blin (166) and King Moblin (187) are separate, even though the latter's description reads "In Link's Awakening, a Big Blin is the boss of Moblin Keep," suggesting it was edited late. Oddly enough, on page 183, the Goriyas are technically listed separately (mostly by color), even though they have the same name. I almost want to seek out the Japanese version, but by its own admission, its lore isn't authoritative either, though it might potentially be interesting for the article if the localization really did change existing info to suit Gamepedia; I was more prompted by figuring there should be some closure on Horsehead at least. LTL (talk) 21:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I see Odolwa’s Insect Minions on page 196. They're described as "moths and other bugs" and the end of the description says "See also Moth." Turn to Moth on page 194: "Moths often appear alongside bosses, including a Mothula in Oracle of Seasons, the Shadow Hag in Oracle of Ages, and Odolwa in Majora's Mask." I know these are technically two different things, but couldn't the writer tell that "insect minions" (which, as an edit summary points out, was originally a generic phrase from page 45 of the Player's Guide) is supposed to be a general term for both types? LTL (talk) 23:59, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Boss battle location names?

Okay so something I've been wondering is how we'll describe certain boss battles in depth if it's in a location. You know how with like Mario Wiki, the Donkey Kong boss levels are only boss levels (e.g. Very Gnawty's Lair? This isn't the case with the Zelda games. I'm thinking like what page should we do an in-depth coverage on, let's say, the final boss battle against Ganondorf in both The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Or should we just integrate it with the location in which it takes place at? Results May Vary (talk) 20:17, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I see no reason why not to just put the dungeon/region...? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:18, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

True, is there any relative example from Mario Wiki? I think I'm just too used to the Donkey Kong boss level pages :P Results May Vary (talk) 20:24, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

If you're talking about like for infoboxes, I prefer using character or species infoboxes regardless. The old DKC trilogy was so formulaic (down to using the same engine and graphics) a lot of things work for it specifically that don't for others. Some things just never changed, like how Forest Interlude's still one of the best BGM in video games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I meant more like covering the boss fight against Ganondorf in-depth in, let's say, the Ganon's Castle page for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, for instance. Covers both the dungeon and boss fight aspects. Results May Vary (talk) 01:03, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

I'd put the boss fight aspects on the boss's page. Zelda dungeons are complex and non-linear (which is why I liked DK64 so much). Ganondorf can have a couple of paragraphs per game section without much of a hassle. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:18, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Yesterday

Yesterday was a terrible day for me. I must apologize for being such a jerk yesterday. I just reached my limit when he closed zeldapedia.com because at the time i felt there was no repair to the zelda wiki situation Results May Vary (talk) 22:26, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

It's fine, I'm not gonna hold a grudge about this. Just let this be a learning experience. Now, is it true you really dislike the series? If you do, that's fine, I just want you to be honest about it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

I was in denial yesterday. I was trying to "force" myself to move on from the Zelda series, feeling that I have failed with trying to make a good wiki with it. I actually like the Zelda games, especially The Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, and Ocarina of Time. I still love Mario and DK more. Results May Vary (talk) 22:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

We all have those days, it's what we do with those feelings that matters. I too have been tempted to throw everything away, but I've seen too often it never ends well. I've lost friends that way and am really worried about them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:49, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

The Way Forward...

Hi doc, i still feel extremely terrible about all of the recent events. So much so that I originally closed Triforce Wiki since the series felt completely sour to me due to these massive incidents... What do you think the next plan should be with Triforce Wiki, moving forward? Results May Vary (talk) 20:17, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I just want to provide a wiki for Zelda that's competent and not held down by concepts like "canon." If we can replace Zeldawiki on NIWA, that's great, if not, so be it. Nepotism and grudges will only take one so far. I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing for now, and if the server gets to be too much for you, give it to Porple. I've been really busy with schoolwork and my own monetary concerns as of late, so I haven't done as much on here in that time as I'd hoped too. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:21, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I really would like to pay for dedicated hosting but that's a last resort, and even then i'd have to do cheapest option without automatic renewal. I did move off wimpykidwiki.com because Triforce Wiki was having connection issues because of the current hosting plan. It would be really nice if porplemontage reopened the wiki... Results May Vary (talk) 20:38, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

In hindsight I feel that Triforce Wiki was a better option than Zeldapedia all this time... Results May Vary (talk) 23:59, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

I got Bluehost to fix some site loading issues with Triforce Wiki, so it should be more stable now. I've also been moving off my other wikis to increase the loading times (they're now managed by Grifkuba.net). Also, I've completed DK Wiki and have been going back to editing wikis such as this one (Triforce) or Jiggywikki. I want you to know that I still deeply regret the events that occurred earlier this month. I wish I never closed Triforce Wiki to begin with and thus betray the trust of my community. I also regret what happened with Zeldapedia, as the move appeared to be done in error. Results May Vary (talk) 22:50, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Agahnim

Yeah it's mentioned on page 36 of the Oracle games' Prima guide. I assume it's an error because it wouldn't make sense for Agahnim to return into the game without explanation. Results May Vary (talk) 23:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Suppose we should identifier it then. That guide was written after PRIMA started doing official guides, right? Because they'd done unofficial for a little while. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:11, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Figurines from Wind Waker/Minish Cap -- Same or Different Page?

When we get to making the Figurine pages for said games, should we merge into one page or separate them? I'm a little uncertain on how to handle this one. Results May Vary (talk) 05:37, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Have them merged, maybe have different listing pages, like with the smash trophy page for MW. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:02, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Good point. By the way, should we archive your talk page? It's getting really long Results May Vary (talk) 06:20, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I'll do it after 100 or so. On MW, I do it after 160 headers. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Mini Bow-Bow

RMV brought this to my attention a while back, but I thought I'd run it past you. What do you make of Nintendo.com referring to "the fashion-conscious Mini Bow-Wow in Madame Meow Meow's shed"? At first glance, I took it as a species name for both miniature Chain Chomp creatures, but the fact that it's also called "the Mini Bow-Wow at Madame Meow Meow's house" indicates it's specifically a name for CiaoCiao. LTL (talk) 12:04, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Eh, I take that more to mean "the relevant Mini-BowWow that actually gives you a thing." Implicitly. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:43, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Palettes

Again i apologize for the mistake between Link Awakening DX and the Oracle games. i'm just trying to get the sprites up, but I don't aim for any inaccuracies or accidents. Results May Vary (talk) 03:14, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Re: Blue Wallmaster in Oracle

I actually do not know what they're called. The whole thing with Wallmaster (TLOZ) and Wallmaster (ALttP) and the floormaster name is confusing and so i made accident, since i'm rushing to get all these sprites uploaded before bedtime. Since i have to sleep soon, do you know the distinction between the wall/floormasters? i havent grasped that one yet Results May Vary (talk) 07:03, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization priority?

Okay, so in The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap, I've noticed that some items are capitalized in one of two ways. For example, when you obtain a Bottle, it is capitalized as "empty bottle", but on the Start menu items screen, it is capitalized "Empty Bottle". What should be the priority for the name? I know the article itself should be Bottle, but I was wondering if you or LTL have come up with a naming priority for capitalization. Results May Vary (talk) 20:53, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

I tend to just lowercase things that are real-life objects, like arrows and bombs. I've been linking to "empty bottle" on occasion, actually. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:33, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

I mean it does make sense to do that. I do the same. So lowercase priority name for real world objects (like 'empty bottle'). How about small shield vs Small Shield (which is the first shield Link gets in Minish Cap). Same or different naming priority? i assume it's different because it's more of a proper noun, pertaining to a specific shield, than small shields in general. Results May Vary (talk) 01:17, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I may have to think on that one, though if the second word is consistently capitalized the whole thing probably should. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

It's the same case as 'empty bottle' -- lowercase when Link obtains it but uppercase from the items subscreen Results May Vary (talk) 02:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Oh well in that case it's probably just capitalizing all first letters for everything. They do that with things like items and RPG target names even if it's grammatically incorrect, like how in-battle in PMTTYD Magnus von Grapple is parsed "Magnus Von Grapple." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

We can use both depending on the game where applicable (i.e. use capitalization as the article title but use lowercase when not linking it), though this may be difficult to keep track of. LTL (talk) 13:25, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Zelda Encyclopedia name copying proof

Hi Doc, I've already found solid evidence for Arts & Artifacts and Zelda Encyclopedia copying from Zelda Wiki and Zeldapedia. Mind if I share my WIP draft with you and LTL? Results May Vary (talk) 20:31, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

G'ahead. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:42, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Download here: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484532701509058560/654421161689481219/text.txt Results May Vary (talk) 20:44, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

OK, I'll look at it some time later, have finals today. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Alright, let me know what you think thus far. Results May Vary (talk) 20:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I researched Oumai/Calamareyes earlier too: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484161386419716096/654472031139790887/calamareyes.txt Results May Vary (talk) 23:59, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Anyway, do you think it's well written? Hopefully we can get the investigation done sooner before Wikia deletes one of the wikis with their combined wiki platform or something. Results May Vary (talk) 07:21, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Playing LADX right now and it does indeed say "Mysterious Woods" on the map. Otherwise it's pretty good. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 07:25, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/475727464228716559/654824572872556544/ze_research.txt Here's my next draft. I updated it to nullify the Mysterious Woods argument, as I stand corrected on that one. Results May Vary (talk) 22:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Super busy today, I'll check it later. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:16, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

OK, that's definitely something. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:08, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

This is shaping up nicely, but I should point out that the macron observation might be incidental since the same thing happened with the Super Mario Land 2 articles in Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia. I'll leave that to your discretion. LTL (talk) 13:25, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree LTL. I was thinking of adding some of your and Doc's notes in the research Results May Vary (talk) 15:39, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay, so I added a couple of more 'cases' of name-copying (and even one where Zelda Encyclopedia puts the two Angler Fishes under the same boat): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/571800898926280713/658888346851868722/ze_research.txt Results May Vary (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Interesting, particularly with Zeldapedia having more reasonable practices than ZW for a time XD Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

This is some great work. The only suggestion I have at the moment is that you can probably start with my "Odolwa's Insect Minions" / Moth observation, particularly since they seem so proud to use that as an example despite being so easily debunkable as a name. You can add that the Majora's Mask 3D Prima guide also refers to them generically as seen on pages 44 and 121 (same quote): "After taking a few hits, Odolwa calls down a rain of bugs that pursue Link around the arena. It pays to slay these little pests, for they often drop useful items, including Deku Nuts and Recovery Hearts." The only thing we're missing right now is the Japanese name for the insect minions, assuming they were still split from moths in the Japanese Encyclopedia. LTL (talk) 13:53, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Which moths are you talking about? And yeah I'll add that in the research (and i'll try with the toilet hand that Doc talk about as well). Update: I added both ???/Hand and Odolwa's Insect Minions in the research: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/475727464228716559/659059073735720979/ze_research.txt . Results May Vary (talk) 15:46, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Moths are other creatures summoned during Odolwa's boss fight. While this is also mentioned as an "annoying swarm of lethal moths" in smaller text, the "insect minions" in the main text is most likely a catch-all phrase for assorting the moths and unidentified bugs together. When Zelda Wiki added "Odolwa's insect minions", they also left the entry for "Moth" alone in the same edit, which may be why the English Encyclopedia distinguishes them (although moths appear in other games). Anyway, I appreciate the shoutout, but there's really no need to credit me in the final version - I just think it's something anyone could have observed if they knew where to look and chose not to take Zelda Wiki at their word (frankly, the fact that they do expect that of their readers is insulting and desperate). Maybe might want to remove the Internet Archive mention as well since there was an incident a few years back when Nintendo apparently had issues of Nintendo Power removed. LTL (talk) 17:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I didnt include any archive.org reference to the guide in the summary. I also removed attributing you for this find, as well as adding some more of your notes (like odolwa's insect minions likely describing both types of bugs). Results May Vary (talk) 17:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/475727464228716559/659082918454493194/message.txt I modified the insect minions case. Is this good? Results May Vary (talk) 17:21, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I'd revise "In other words, it was just a description that the writer made for both insect types that a wiki editor morphed into a name. In the smaller text of the Nintendo Player's guide, it is mentioned as an "annoying swarm of lethal moths", so the "insect minions" in the main description most likely assorts the moths and unidentified bugs together." to "In smaller text directly below, an "annoying swarm of lethals moths" is also mentioned, but the "insect minions" in the main description most likely assorts the moths and unidentified bugs together since it only mentions the insect and rock obstacles. In other words, the "insect minions" was just a description that the guide writer made for both insect types that a wiki editor morphed into a name for one of them." I think it's a bit more clarifying this way. Maybe I'd also move the part about Majora's Mask 3D Prima guide afterwards so that whole chunk stays on the topic of guide quotes. Other than that, looks good. Perhaps it can be accompanied by a snipped scan of the guides showing the appropriate text. LTL (talk) 18:50, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Goriya

I don't have immediate access to that information, but suppose I may be interested in procuring a copy of the Japanese Encyclopedia - would you consider how it's classified in that book to be sufficient, or is that source too tainted at this point? LTL (talk) 13:25, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Hebra

Well, the Light World and Dark World locations are generally split, though it's important to note that page 3 of the Japanese Kamigami no Triforce manual lists 「（デスマウンテン）」 directly under 「ヘブラ山」 and is the only location to display an alternate name. The Lost Old Man's location is given as "Death Mountain" in all versions of the ending. Four Swords Adventures also only uses "Hebra" for Hebra's Hill I believe, not Death Mountain. This is already more than Mount Crenel or Eldin Volcano get in their own games. I think the simple solution would be to consider it Death Mountain, and mention that the chilly Breath of the Wild region is named after it. LTL (talk) 13:25, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Mau

According to this guide, Rā is the dragon head and Mau is the wolf head. Zelda Encyclopedia has it correctly. My guess is that Art & Artifacts meant to label the artwork for the dragon head on the left as Ra and the artwork for both wolf heads as Mau, but the text positioning is awkward. LTL (talk) 13:53, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:loanwords

I'd prefer we err on the side of caution myself; 「ウォース」 (Wōsu) seems liklier based on the word 「ウルフ」 (urufu, wolf) and possibly 「スタルフォス」 (Sutarufosu, Stalfos) rather than intentionally meant to be the word "Worth" (given that they did not steal experience in the Disk System version), and this logic would mean having a second Gooma article. LTL (talk) 17:06, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

It seems probable that they're a humanoid predecessor to 「ウルフォス」 (Urufosu, Wolfos). At any rate, I think it's safer rendering actual loanwords that unambiguously fit the context (like how Mario Wiki generally handles it) rather than transliterations of foreign names, which feels a bit too much like a stab in the dark. After all, it was "common knowledge" at one point that the name of Error was supposed to be Errol, but then people started to notice that it was supposed to be paired with 「バグ」 (Bagu, Bug). Admittedly, "Error" is usually written as 「エラー」 (Erā) and "Errol" is usually written as 「エロール」 (Erōru), but the point still stands I believe. LTL (talk) 11:55, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure. They are equivalent to the Light World's thieves and it makes sense given their behavior. It's also hinted at in the SNES Player's Guide (on page 86: "Not only were robbers picking the pockets of travelers on the village paths..." and on page 87: "PICKPOCKET POPULATION"), though the GBA Player's Guide drops the connection and also describes them as "thieves" on page 62 and a "thieving creature" on page 63. LTL (talk) 13:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Piranha

Unless I'm missing something, they're only referred to as "FISH"/"fish" on page 96 of the Link's Awakening Player's Guide and aren't mentioned in the other ones, though Prima can be double-checked. LTL (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

They're also called Fish on page 101 of the official LADX Prima guide. Results May Vary (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that guide is shared with the GBA version of A Link to the Past. If they only show up in Goponga Swamp, Eyeglass Lake and Talus Cave, then I'm fairly certain that they don't show up elsewhere in the Player's Guides. That just leaves the Prima guide for Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. LTL (talk) 23:32, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Page 122 of the Oracle games' prima guide also says Fish (i should really make scans) Results May Vary (talk) 23:42, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

No in-game mentions; "Piranha" is derived from the Japanese name it seems: 「ヒレピラニア」 (Hire Pirania, Fin Piranha). LTL (talk) 00:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Oddly enough, Gamepedia claims that they're "simply called Piranhas in the guides" in the page history. I'm guessing that was secondhand information. LTL (talk) 00:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Re:Walltula vs. Skullwalltula

I do wonder how in-depth that was given they left Japanese ReDead alone, and I'm fairly certain that the Twilight Princess HD guide uses Walltula just like the original. I was actually thinking of a new naming guideline: if a subject has multiple appearances and the latest one is a remake, the subject's in-game name from the latest original appearance will have precedence over it. The original reason I was thinking about this was because of cases like Magic Powder and Roc's Feather, which are more commonly named as such in other games but were only recently parsed "magic powder" and "Roc's feather" in the Link's Awakening remake. This would also mean moving things like Ball and Chain Trooper and Moblin Chief to Ball 'N Chain Guard and Big Blin, respectively. Let me know what you think. LTL (talk) 10:16, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

In the case of the items/equipment at least, it's probably because highlighted text was added to the remake (though it also existed in the Oracle games), which is how the capitalization became inconsistent. LTL (talk) 10:32, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

It seems Skullwalltula it is, unless it's named Walltula in added Twilight Princess HD text that I'm not aware of. LTL (talk) 10:40, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

It's also called a "trap" on page 39 of the NES manual (FDS pg. 38: トラップ) and a "Trap" in The Wind Waker (via Tingle Tuner text). I believe it's just described generically in most guides, though in the Super Famicom Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide, the big-sized one is labeled as 「トラップ （大）」 and the regular-sized one is labeled as 「トラップ （小）」 on page 134 of the Jou volume - not sure where exactly "Giant Blade Trap" comes from. Either way, Trap would take priority for the manual and in-game references, but I can check more guides later. It'd help to know which dungeons they appear in though. LTL (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Link's Awakening DX Player's Guide?

According to this resource, later editions of the Link's Awakening Player's Guide also cover the DX version. Do you know if this claim is legit, or was it conflating the Prima Games guide? LTL (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Manondork

What do you make of this page from Nintendo Power's The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past comic by Shotaro Ishinomori? For context, Link dozes off next to a tree in the Dark World, who tells him about Ganondorf, and Link wonders if it was all a dream afterwards. The story depicts a scruffy-looking burly fellow with a sword on a dark horse (possibly where his unnamed black stallion comes from), who is shown transforming. I first thought this was a depiction of Ganondorf's transformation into Ganon, except two things: 1) the text "I was one of them..." accompanies the panels, which may imply that it's supposed to be showing the talking timber turning into a Moblin (more of an evil monster than a stationary tree), and 2) when Ganon appears in the last two chapters, he wields a trident instead of a sword and has a different color scheme and clothing (albeit the same necklace). Would you consider it to be the first ever physical appearance of Ganondorf, or a greedy Moblin who later became a wise tree? LTL (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm probably overthinking it: I overlooked an obvious armored Moblin appearing the next few pages, and there's nothing in the game or comic lore about the Dark World changing someone into more than one creature. Do you have any preference on the way to upload the image to the wiki? Mario Wiki uploads full scans (for example), but I notice that certain other wikis tend to blank out the text boxes. Could just be that other publications are more protective about reproducing the raw text however. LTL (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

It could be an amalgamation of both a "talking timber" and the storytelling tree - the comic and manga adaptations take plenty of liberties so it's hard to say for sure (for example, the loyal priest/sage is an old man from the NES game, the bird is this thing I think, and Moldorm is Gohma [?]). It's probably closer to the storyteller, though there is a tree near the pyramid that also talks about Ganon. By the way, I've tentatively named the article "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (comic)" since it was designed for western audiences first, but do you think that's the best identifier? There's apparently at least three more A Link to the Past adaptations on top of that, plus a radio drama-style prologue. Gamepedia distinguishes them by the creator surname, but I'm not sure if we want to copy that example. LTL (talk) 00:36, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

From what I can gather, the Junko Taguchi manga was published in November 1993, the Ataru Cagiva manga was serialized from October 1994 or June 1995 to March 1996 or May 1996, and the Akira Himekawa manga was published in July 2005 for the GBA release. I believe only the last one received an official English release, so that would probably get the plain "manga" identifier. The comic's "Gleeock" is definitely just an unmasked version of the Helmasaur King. As I recall, Super Mario Adventures made a similar naming error where Koopa Paratroopas were called "Mecha-Koopas". LTL (talk) 01:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Is this it? It looks Ocarina of Time-esque, though I think it's supposed to be a regular Armos Statue outside the Eastern Palace instead of an Armos Knight. LTL (talk) 02:28, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Re:Horseface and Oxface

That could explain why that Gooma boss with the supposed Gūma enemy artwork was added to the NES version - maybe it was always intended for the FDS version? May also be why the Doomknocker is a "Hell Gūma", given Ox-Head and Horse-Face in mythology, though I always thought it might've meant to be "Helm Gūma". LTL (talk) 21:30, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Re:AoL Nintendo art

The Carock artwork can be seen in Nintendo Power Volume 4, page 23. If I were to venture a guess, it was probably artwork made for the Disk System version that for whatever circumstances remained unreleased until the NES localization, like how Gooma's artwork may have been repurposed from Gūma. LTL (talk) 13:36, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Re:Octive and Water Octorok

Well as you may be aware, I ordered Japanese copies of the "Goddess Collection" books to confirm some suspicions beyond doubt regarding Dark Horse, but they are still taking a while to arrive, so I can't answer this question definitively at the moment. However, I can point out some things that will hopefully point in the right direction. In the English Zelda Encyclopedia, Ocean Octorok from The Wind Waker (HD; stated as being the bomb-spitting Octorok instead of the rock-spitting one), Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks and Octive from Spirit Tracks have their own entries separate from Octorok (red, blue, golden and purple) on page 195. However, in the main Octorok entry, in addition to labeling the games that depict it as the red color variation, it also groups together Water Octorok from Tri Force Heroes as another alternate name. I'm not sure how reliable these alternate names are since it also for example considers Tri Force Heroes' "Sky Fire Chain Soldier" an alternate name for "Ball and Chain Soldier (Gold)" on page 164 (and incorrectly lists "Ball and Chain Trooper (Gold)" as an alternate name also used for A Link Between Worlds), which is really a minor variant (though that is acknowledged within the description), and Water Octorok and Sky Fire Chain Soldier have separate listings on pages 212 and 204 that redirect to Octorok and Ball and Chain Soldier (Gold), respectively. That, and I believe I've mentioned that I highly suspect Dark Horse selectively edited and reorganized a lot of key information after consulting Gamepedia/Wikia. As for whether Breath of the Wild's Water Octorok is Spirit Tracks' Octive and/or Tri Force Heroes' Water Octorok, the former's concept artwork makes it seem like the final name was an afterthought, though the internal name is Enemy_Octarock, as in it is technically considered the game's base Octorok as somewhat hinted at in the Hyrule Compendium entries of the Forest and Sky Octoroks (in contrast, Breath of the Wild's Wizzrobes have no base version in case you were wondering). Basically, with current information, Water Octoroks from Tri Force Heroes and Breath of the Wild should be the basic Octorok, while Ocean Octorok and Octive are apparently their own things despite at least the latter sharing a Japanese name. Of course, subject to change if the Japanese book is indeed different, so take it for what it's worth for now. LTL (talk) 10:12, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

Ocean Octorok's Phantom Hourglass internal filename is SeaOcta, but if the Japanese name turns out to be Ink Octo then that makes the supposed retroactive identification of one of The Wind Waker's Octoroks as an Ocean Octorok pretty suspicious. The oldschool Octorok is Octarock in Phantom Hourglass internally, so that game definitely considers the land Octorok to be the base version. I guess that means there is a bit of overlap on whether basic Octoroks are supposed to be land-based or water-dwelling, though I'd say The Wind Waker Octoroks are definitely classified as the base version as far as that game is concerned since the original figurine gives it the "Winner of the Perfect Attendance Award" and Ocean Octorok still has different behavior despite similar looks. Regarding splitting Breath of the Wild's other Octoroks, I don't see why not; for disclosure, Forest Octorok is Enemy_Octarock_Forest, Rock Octorok is Enemy_Octarock_Stone, Snow Octorok is Enemy_Octarock_Snow, Treasure Octorok is Enemy_Octarock_Desert, and Sky Octorok is Enemy_AirOctarock (DLC is presumably the reason the last one is formatted differently). Wizzrobe's case is a bit odd in it and A Link Between Worlds, but it might be handled fine along the lines of: "While normal Wizzrobes do not appear in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Fire Wizzrobes, Ice Wizzrobes, and Electric Wizzrobes make an appearance, along with stronger versions respectively known as Meteo Wizzrobes, Blizzrobes, and Thunder Wizzrobes." I'll have more to say about it and other things when I finally get my hands on Hyrule Encyclopedia. LTL (talk) 13:30, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

I've noticed that Ink Octo[rok] is labeled as スミオクタ in the Japanese Hyrule Historia, so that probably is the name for it in both games. Cyclok is also labeled as オクタロック there, though unlike the internal GranDeOcta strings, its filename is the placeholder WindBoss. The Octive/Ergtorok-like concepts for Spirit Tracks are also simply labeled オクタロック in the Japanese version. Anyway, I think redesigned Octoroks playing a more significant role is likely; in a way, possibly paralleling how Moblins may have been remodeled after pig-like features of the usual main villain. On a side note regarding Breath of the Wild, I've also noticed that Hinox is internally labeled Enemy_Giant, Blue Hinox is Enemy_Giant_Middle, Black Hinox is Enemy_Giant_Senior, and Stalnox is FldObj_Giant_Bone; might this indicate that the Bokoblin-like giant was not always intended to be a Hinox? LTL (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

Molduga is Enemy_Sandworm, so that's probably why it was loosely thrown into the Mold- family despite obviously not looking very much like a worm at all. The Japanese name, モルドラジーク (Morudorajīku, "Moldrassic"), seems a bit more self-aware of the fact. The Hinox tidbit can probably be mentioned as trivia or side note in the article. That aside, I discovered an alternate explanation for Ocean Octorok - turns out that the guides refer to The Wind Waker's Octoroks with unique names, and the one Prima Games happens to use for the Great Sea's bomb-spitting variant is Ocean Octo. I skimmed through the Nintendo Power guide but didn't see it mentioned, though the Forest Haven's rock-spitting Octorok, known as River Octo by Prima, is called River Octorok in it. It's very possible that some reference material conflated Ocean Octo and Ocean Octorok at some point. LTL (talk) 22:05, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

I've looked into the internal data of the 3DS games to see if that can hopefully help. It's something I've been meaning to do for some time anyway. The first thing I noticed is that the internal transliterations in A Link Between Worlds are once again somewhat different (for example, Hinox is Hinox, whereas in Phantom Hourglass, Hinox is Hinocks). In both A Link Between Worlds and Tri Force Heroes, Wizrobe.bch contains one Wizrobe model with textures for Fire Wizzrobe (Wizrobe.0) and Ice Wizzrobe (Wizrobe.1); however, in A Link Between Worlds, ActorProfile.szs has references to EnemyWizrobeFire.byaml and EnemyWizrobeIce.byaml, while in Tri Force Heroes, ActorProfile.szs has references to EnemyWizrobe.byaml and EnemyIceWizrobe.byaml. My guess is that the enemy "Wizrobe" profile might refer to the dark one in Version 2.0.0's Den of Trials, but I'm unsure. So despite sharing the same model with swapped textures, the ActorProfile archive that delineates behavior and properties considers them separate objects. Also, A Link Between Worlds' Octorok is Octorok and Tri Force Heroes' Water Octorok is UnderWaterOctorok - but again, Tri Force Heroes' ActorProfile.szs has references to EnemyOctorok.byaml and EnemyUnderWaterOctorok.byaml, which might refer to the dark Octorok from the Den of Trials, a carryover from A Link Between Worlds' ActorProfile.szs, or possibly something else. Some other things that stick out: continuing from here, Irene indeed has internal references as Maple, but no sign of Syrup from what I can see - instead, the witch is ShopManMagic ("ShopMan" standing for shop manager) and the Lorule counterpart is ShopManMagicUra ("Ura" being using for many Lorule counterparts of characters and locations, such as Wirt_Ura and Wirt_Ball_Ura). Aside from Impa (Inpa), the Sages do not use their final names; for example, Oren is ZoraQueenSmall/ZoraQueenBig, Gulley is BlacksmithBoy, Rosso is Mountaineer, Seres is PriestGirl, and Osfala is SahasPupil. On a related note, Maiamai is KinSta, Mother Maiamai is KinStaShopMan, Hookshoot and Nice Hookshot are Shooter, the weather vanes are Telephone and TelephoneDark for some reason (maybe it was initially repurposed from Link's Awakening?), Peahat is SandBoss_child, Grinexx is DeguRock, there's a reference to EnemyZeekRock (possibly Gemesaur King, although it is JewelRock/EnemyJewelRock), and Yuga is Medium, making Yuga Ganon MediumGanon and regular Ganon GhostGanon. Here's something else you were right about: continuing from here, Swamola is referred to as Moldworm and Flamola has a separate EnemyFireMoldworm profile and Fire_Moldworm texture in Turtle Rock. This strongly suggests that Moldworm is a renamed Moldorm after all - maybe reorganize by moving the Swamola info to Moldworm (or possibly fully merge)? Additionally, A Link Between Worlds' Moldorm boss is DegTail/DeguTail, Margomill is Togegoma, Arrghus is Wirt, Arrgi is Wirt_Ball, Devalant is Deviland, Tri Force Heroes' Moldorm boss is NeoDegTail, Margoma is TogegomaBoss, Arrghus is WortBody/WortEye, Grim Repoe is BerokamaBoss, Squiddy/Jellyrich is RupeeJellyfish, and both games use Kodongo instead of Kodondo. We'll see if Hyrule Encyclopedia says anything different, but given its own iffy background I believe this may be enough information to make a few judgment calls. LTL (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2020 (MDT)

Tri Force Heroes' Poes are Poe and KandelaarPoe for Lantern Poe; Prankster Poe and Key Bandit Poe are GhostRogue and GhostKeyRogue, oddly enough, so they are the ones that might not truly be Poes (the boss has another profile associated with it called EnemyBerokamaPoe, though that may be a function for the summoned Poes). The Wind Waker's Molgera babies are mainly described as "worms" in the Nintendo Power guide and "larvae" in the Prima Games guides. I'll have to get back to you if I find the right filename for it. By the way, I was actually thinking that "Moldworm" should be the title of the merged article since it's technically the only one used in-game (and it happens to be the corrected name), especially if that's the reason the A Link to the Past enemy is keeping the Moldorm name from The Minish Cap with that identifier. LTL (talk) 21:59, 20 May 2020 (MDT)

Majora's Mask 3D filenames are easier for me to locate at the moment, so I'll start with that. Within the zelda2_boss02.gar.lzs archive, Moldbaby's model is labeled minimold.cmb and has a separate sand shape called sand_shape_baby.cmb, but its camera data is moldbaby.ccb. Also of note is that zelda2_boss01.gar.lzs is Odolwa (rendered "odoruwa", which makes more sense since odoru means "to dance"), zelda2_boss03.gar.lzs is Gyorg, zelda2_boss04.gar.lzs is Wart, zelda2_boss05.gar.lzs is Deku Baba(?) and zelda2_boss07.gar.lzs contains the final boss phases despite there being no "zelda2_boss06.gar.lzs". If the 3DS files only edited what was necessary from the original N64 source files, then this might be a remnant of an earlier boss or dungeon order from development. On the topic of Mold(w)orm, I was thinking - now that Moldworm lost its game identifier, "Moldorm (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)" sticks out as it can more easily be confused for the boss and "Moldorm (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past enemy)" is a mouthful, so how about simplifying that article title to "Moldorm (mini)" since it's almost always depicted as a miniature version of the boss anyway? LTL (talk) 12:59, 21 May 2020 (MDT)

Goht is zelda2_boss_hakugin.gar.lzs, dunno why it isn't numbered like the other ones but maybe it was added late as a replacement for the original 06. Back to The Wind Waker (and note that I'm referencing the original, not HD) - most filenames are abbreviated (example), but some textures have more descriptive names. I found files for the Molgera boss (under Bwd.arc), larva (Bwds.arc), and figurine (within Figure6.arc). For the larva, the models and animations start with "koboss", and for it and the figurine, texture is kaze_chibi_body. This gives the impression that it's just a smaller version of the boss like the English guides suggest, but in contrast, Armos' main body texture is chibi_amo1 and Armos Knight's is amos, so maybe it's not totally conclusive. Also, the texture for the Bombchu-esque variant of Rat/Gooze (whose filenames indicate nezumi, or Japanese for rat) is bomtyu, further supporting it. LTL (talk) 20:25, 21 May 2020 (MDT)

Shoot. "Moldorm (The Legend of Zelda)" it is then. If you delete the redirect it's only fair I take care of the rest. Unless you want to implement a source priority exception here. LTL (talk) 08:30, 23 May 2020 (MDT)

In Phantom Hourglass, Sandworm is MoldWorm and Moldorm is in three segments called Tail1, Tail2, and Tail3. LTL (talk) 11:50, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

That is just called Fishman. It's odd, but the Spirit Tracks Prima guide still describes Geozards and Geozard Chiefs as Zoras throughout, and even uses the original "Zora Warrior" term from the Phantom Hourglass guide at least twice (on pages 13 and 240, where it's specifically the green one). They do seem like beefy versions of enemy Zoras, with similar head design, ability to leap from water, and flame breath being a souped-up fireball. Additionally, it's distinctly possible that "Fishman" is harkening back to the original manual. I'd at least leave Geozard as a variant or relative of Zora, and maybe rename to Zora Warrior since it's present in both guides. LTL (talk) 19:30, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

Geozard is only in the Spirit Tracks guide, but it and Geozard Chief are called Zoras practically everywhere. I feel like Zora Warrior was split into two similar enemies, since it had flame breath in Phantom Hourglass but the new Geozard Chief had it instead in Spirit Tracks, and the design of Geozard is a bit different with modified/recolored textures and removal of cephalic fin except for the chief. Maybe Mysterii can confirm if I'm on to something? LTL (talk) 08:49, 1 June 2020 (MDT)

Maybe, but another thing to keep in mind is that, by The Wind Waker and its sequels, the original Zoras are nowhere to be seen and are said to have evolved into the Rito race, which don't have any obvious naming connection with Zora. So the developers may have considered a lore reason as to why they're not specifically named Zoras. I do find it a bit strange that Prima went halfway in renaming it in the Spirit Tracks guide but didn't totally erase all instances of Zora Warrior and Zora, though it may be like the Deadrock situation, which obviously isn't a direct variant of Goron (though that was also a clear one-off). I'll leave it to your judgment on what to do with Zora Warrior/Geozard, but if you do move it from variants to relatives/comparable, then I think the Zora Warrior/Geozard article should still note that Prima called them Zoras twice. LTL (talk) 11:04, 15 June 2020 (MDT)

Something that may be of interest is that about half of the bosses of Phantom Hourglass use placeholder or early names internally, except for "Gliork" and "Oisu" since they return from other games, as well as "Reyard" and the "Cubus" girls - Blaaz is "FireBoss", Cyclok is "WindBoss" as mentioned before, Dongorongo is "BossP", Bellum is "GranDeOcta" and Bellumbeck is "GranBack". So if its name was decided early on, I'd say probably. LTL (talk) 07:55, 18 June 2020 (MDT)

There are multiple models for them - Ptar for the lighter-colored eyeless droplets that fall ("ooze" in Prima pages 299 & 300), and Muddy1, Muddy2, and Muddy3 for the minions themselves ("ooze minions" in Prima page 299). I'm not sure why "Muddy" is three different models but it may have something to due with how it's generated. There's also a similar model called GranDeOcta2Eye which is darker and has a spot pattern instead of waves. It may be used for the Ghost Ship eyes ("Bellum eyes" in Prima page 302) given that GranDeOcta3 is the helmeted Bellumbeck boss, but I'm not sure. Page 206 of Hyrule Encyclopedia uses the name 「マッディー」 (Maddī, Muddy) in place of "Slime Minion" with no mention of Ptar. Why a perfectly fine, obvious English transliteration was replaced with an obscure wiki name, who knows, but that's not the only time it happens. Dark Horse should really have updated their bibliography section to state, "all those Japanese guides were practically thrown them out the window since we just copied our homework from a wiki." LTL (talk) 16:00, 19 June 2020 (MDT)

An English text dump and the Prima guide only refer to the "Cobble Kingdom" and do not mention "Cobble" as the name of the race or "Cobble Knight" as the name of the knights. I'd compare a Japanese text dump but my source for them isn't working for me at the moment, but quick YouTube footage shows the case is probably the same in Japanese: 「ダイク王国」 (Daiku Ōkuni, Carpenter Kingdom). My impression that the joke is really about King Mutoh and the knights, though I'm curious if Astrid's line claiming that she and Kayo "hail from the Cobble Kingdom" is the same since the kingdom is no longer supposed to exist. If it's inconclusive, I don't have a problem using "human" for miscellaneous races that may or may not be Hylian, or just leaving that detail out. LTL (talk) 17:37, 19 June 2020 (MDT)

The unique name isn't in the Prima guide, but differentiating them isn't an invention - Miniblin is PetitBlin and the pirate is UmiBlin, which aligns with the name on page 164 of Hyrule Encyclopedia, 「ウミブリン」 (Umi Burin, Sea Blin). LTL (talk) 00:52, 21 June 2020 (MDT)

Recorder and Magical Rod

By the way, do you have any thoughts on how to organize this or that? LTL (talk) 10:12, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

Re:Snow Gooze

Blue Rat is what Zelda Wiki claims the name is in Zelda Encyclopedia, so if the article were to be split, I offered up Snow Gooze for future reference (or maybe a more direct Japanese romanization of whatever name's in Hyrule Encyclopedia, presuming it's also distinct there). Same goes for Snowball Zirro and Ice Creepee. However, I double-checked the book and it's actually "Rat (Blue)" and "Zirro (Snowball)", so I guess that'll teach me for being lazy and taking an article at face value, though Dark Rat is "Geeze" for future reference. For The Wind Waker figurine, I referenced one of the Zelda Legends text dumps (Zelda Dungeon has decent text dumps as well but are English only) - and according to it, the bomb-wielding Rat/Gooze is still known as Bombchu in the Japanese version. For The Minish Cap figurine, I referenced this transcript (since I lost my battery save) - and it does specify that the black one (or kuroi) is Crow/Crowly and the other one is Takkuri. I'm actually more curious where Guay fits in, since Ocarina of Time apparently called it a crow - it may be generic, but perhaps it was consciously conceptualized as the same enemy? LTL (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2020 (MDT)

Re:Internal template

Something like that makes sense if the internal name has some noticeable difference from the final name, but if it's just an interpretation of the final name then I feel it should fit as-is. There are many cases where it's hard to keep track of everything due to parts using custom compression, having multiple references in game data that may not sync up, shorthand that can be incomprehensible, or other complications. I'll think about if a wiki table to fill this niche is necessary. I was thinking maybe noting more straightforward transliterations along the lines of Gamepedia's exp template, which can have other applications, and leaving notable early names in trivia. LTL (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2020 (MDT)

Re:ALttP/FS PRIMA

I think I might actually have this guide somewhere, but I completely forgot about it. I know for sure I had the SNES Prima guide at one point - for some reason the most memorable thing about it to me was that it kept comparing one of the Dark World NPCs to the Hamburger Helper mascot "(it does, I swear)". It came in two distinct editions: one I found at a library that had condensed guides for the NES games, and one I owned that contained a condensed guide for Link's Awakening. I don't think I still have a copy, but - to my recollection - the names from the GBA Prima guide are not taken from it. So I think it's perfectly fine to reference them in the enemy articles, use them when referring to A Link to the Past/Four Swords era in cases where there isn't a name in the SNES and GBA Nintendo Power guides, and even rename a few that don't show up in A Link Between Worlds and later games (namely Babūsu, Buzz, and Zoro). Other things of note is that this is where the mini Moldorm's hyphenation comes from, the A Link to the Past Goriya may be named after Arm-Mimic and Mask-Mimic, and the wrong image is mistakenly used for Zora. LTL (talk) 11:01, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

Another thing of interest - and this might be a complete coincidence - but in the Kamigami no Triforce manual, "the cemetary in the shadow of Death Mountain" (which may be referring to the one next to the Sanctuary but might also be referring to the western one in the original NES game) is referred to as "the graves of a race of high mountain people". This sounds suspiciously like what would eventually become Gorons. The Prima guide might be alluding to it by making a connection to Deadrocks. LTL (talk) 11:50, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

One more thing: there's a Legends of Localization 4-way translation comparison between the English GBA, English SNES, Japanese SFC, and Japanese GBA versions, and in it, the enemy names are displayed as transcribed from various guides. Earlier episodes mention that the Prima names come from the unofficial SNES guide, which had me worried, but this is corrected at some point later on and they mention it's actually the GBA one, confirming that the names are new to the GBA version. LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

Re:Zelda II "names"

In these cases, I say we stick with the existing capitalizations (except Slime, which is Bot in the original manual). The manual is intended to refer to magicians in general, not a specific enemy, judging from the Japanese version. Curiously, the "Wizard" reference has artwork of a Mago right above it, but it's clear in the context of the Palace of Maze Island and the screenshot below that it's meant to refer to Wizuzāru, and the issues post artwork as decoration rather haphazardly. That may be why the next issue mentions a "wizard", though in context, it seems it can refer to either enemy, not Mago specifically. Gūma has confusion with Gooma so the author probably threw together a quick descriptor. LTL (talk) 11:01, 31 May 2020 (MDT)

Hyrule Graphics; or, "Deconstruction" Part 1 of 2

There won't be a whole lot to say about the Japanese version of Art & Artifacts next to its successor, but I suppose the first thing that might be on your mind is: yes, Dark Horse really did rename the 「??」 hand from Majora's Mask (page 193) and Oracle of Ages (page 211) - actually, the English version even calls both "???", so it's the next book that blatantly reverts to a certain wiki. Continuing from here, the artwork for Gooma is labelled 「グーマ」 - there's no note about it being from western versions, which leads me to believe the artwork really might have been intended for the Guma enemy (note that the section has at least one instance of International artwork on page 124 - two if the Magical Sword artwork on page 125 was made for the NES version - but I think the Octorok was a correction since the Japanese artwork originally made it look too pinkish, and Carock looks to be absent). Further, the text position of Ra and Mau was indeed messed up in the English version - the name for Ra should be a little more to the left next to the dragon head and the name for Mau should be between the two wolf heads. This might have been a mistake made when converting the way the Japanese book labels artwork - in the Japanese version, artwork is numbered and the numbers have the names in footnotes at the bottom (A or B being added if the artwork is specific to an original version or a rerelease), whereas the English version replaced that system because sometimes the corresponding notes would carry over to the next page unnecessarily. Moving on to A Link to the Past, Zazakku is properly labelled as 「ザーザック」 on pages 142 and 395 instead of Daira, which might have happened because they were presumed to be a separate enemy in A Link Between Worlds due to different behavior and an English name from A Link to the Past was not available (yet). Continuing from here, the witch from A Link to the Past is labelled 「魔法屋おばば」 (Mahōya Obaba, Magic Shop Old Woman) on page 393, not Syrup. Also, the game's Swamola is called 「モルドアーム」 on page 395 - due to Kodongo being called 「コドンゴ」 on the same page, I'm inclined to believe this is still its name in the GBA version (note the Cane of Somaria is 「ソマリアの杖」 on page 397 like the SFC version, but this was also the case later in Cadence of Hyrule so the decision might have been made to revert it much sooner). For The Wind Waker, the Molgera and Jalhalla mix-up is not there on page 244. To answer the question about the Poes in Twilight Princess, the tall Poe is labelled as 「ポゥ」 whereas Imp Poe is labelled as 「ポゥフィー」 on page 291. And some of Chapter.3: Extra Contents (retitled "Temple of Time: The First Thirty Years" by Dark Horse) is restructured; for example, the Logo Gallery, Logo Gallery[U.S.version], Package Gallery, and Package Gallery[U.S.version] were amalgamated into a single "Logo and Package Gallery" section, complete with redone information like release dates obviously ripped from online sources. Not sure what else to add about it that hasn't already been said, but let me know if you think of anything else. LTL (talk) 11:04, 15 June 2020 (MDT)

One more thing I want to add is that the Gooma/Guma artwork is grouped on a page with regular enemies and not with the other bosses that tend to be at the end of each game section. The Imp Poe surprised me too, so to be sure, I also checked the Japanese Hyrule Historia. Sure enough, it's labelled as 「ポゥフィー」 on page 195, though it actually is identified as "Imp Poe" in the English version as well (side note, GlitterBerri apparently looked at Zelda Wiki - not that there's necessarily a direct correlation especially considering things truly get egregious in Zelda Encyclopedia, but given she helped with the Dark Horse versions of Hyrule Historia and Art & Artifacts, maybe it was a sign of things to come). Not to get ahead of myself, but Hyrule Encyclopedia has the Twilight Princess Poe with the main Poe on page 202 and the Imp Poe / Pōfī as a separate entry on page 203 - but that'll be its own write-up. LTL (talk) 15:58, 15 June 2020 (MDT)

I thought it was on Zelda Universe but I was thinking of the wrong one. It's used as clipart with other enemies (Rā, Geru, Stalfos, Daira, and Ironknuckle) in the Nintendo Power Volume 4 overworld map. The next issue does use the artwork next to the boss on page 11, with an inexplicable Myu near it (also other artwork is random in the previous issue like Ache for Parapa Palace, Geru for Midoro Swamp, Eagle Knight for the Island Palace, and that Mago for the Palace of Maze Island). The only other place that the artwork is clearly used for the boss is on pages 173 and 187 of Playing With Power: Nintendo NES Classics by Prima Games. So the artwork is questionable in that it still looks much closer to the enemy and hardly like the sprite of the boss, but it is technically used in that context. (Also, I never noticed that several palace names change depending on the source.) LTL (talk) 17:45, 15 June 2020 (MDT)

Correction: Before, I suggested that the North American release date for The Legend of Zelda was "obviously ripped from online sources". This is untrue, since Super Smash Bros. for Wii U uses the same date as Art & Artifacts and Zelda Encyclopedia, via Masterpieces; instead, the North American release date for Zelda II: The Adventure of Link was obviously from online sources, as it is listed as October 11, 1988, in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and December 1, 1988, in Art & Artifacts (374) and Zelda Encyclopedia (7). LTL (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

Re:"Ocarina" of Seasons/Ages

No, I just copypasted an existing reference and overlooked the error. My mistake. Hopefully it's been scrubbed. LTL (talk) 16:00, 19 June 2020 (MDT)

Re:TurtleS

I'm aware, but I still think there's an inconsistency here. The TOP SECRETS booklet that came with the game interprets them as "turtles" generically, so the person who made the blurb in the guide probably saw that, slapped a capitalization on it, and called it a day. The GBA guides would later clean it up their own way - the Nintendo Power guide by describing them only as "hostile turtlelike creatures" and the Prima guide by more clearly use singular Turtle - so it was treated as more a general subject at the time that barely had an actual name. If anything, I think the safest bet would be to prioritize the TOP SECRETS booklet since that seems most likely to be the intent. LTL (talk) 00:52, 21 June 2020 (MDT)

Moneybags has a consistent history throughout multiple guides and is slang for a rich person in the singular sense, whereas Turtles just has one page header and is just the plural of turtle. Also, I found another source supporting lowercase turtle, and it even comes from Nintendo Power; Volume 34, page 97: "Use the Hammer to pound the posts into the floor. Also use it against turtles." So there's multiple sources treating it as a generic subject (inluding the Nintendo Power GBA guide), one Nintendo Power guide that apparently seems to interpret it as "Turtles" judging from a subject line, and a Prima guide that uses "Turtle" more clearly. In this case, I'd mainly go with "turtle" since most sources suggest it, including the SNES release's secondary booklet - I will grant you "Gibdos" since it comes from the primary booklet and I can't find an A Link to the Past reference using "Gibdo" singularly - the SNES guide only refers to them as "Gibdos" and the Prima writer resorted to "Zombie". Maybe a better comparison would be with the turtle from Superstar Saga, although we ended up going with the Japanese name via proposal.

Turtle shenanigans aside, I was wondering what you think about the A Link to the Past naming setup. There's two core groups of subjects I'm not sure about - enemies that were named in earlier manuals (Armos Knight [only named Armos in the GBA Prima guide], Cobra, Mountain Lion), and enemies that received English names between the release of the SNES and GBA versions (Biri [obviously meant to pair with Bari], Hardhat Beetle and Water Tektite). Technically, original Moldorm belongs in the former group and Deadrock should belong in the group of enemies named after A Link to the Past/Four Swords, but I think those cases are outliers since Swamola was reused for A Link Between Worlds and "Goron" is retroactively based on Ocarina of Time. Would you prefer strictly using names from A Link to the Past(/Four Swords) material, leaving them as they currently are, or some mix in between? LTL (talk) 08:01, 23 June 2020 (MDT)

I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. If "Turtles" was a more transformative or unique name (like the fictional Gibdo, which I agree can be Gibdos for A Link to the Past) and had more examples of consistent, clear-cut context, then I'd say go right ahead, but that's just plainly the plural of turtle. Think of it this way - even taking Prima out of the equation, you have one (secondary) manual and at least one issue of Nintendo Power magazine calling it a turtle, versus the SNES Player's Guide capitalizing and pluralizing it once and then the GBA Player's Guide dropping it altogether. It's like capitalizing "Faerie" when "faerie" is used by the game and (primary) manual, or insisting that Laser Eye should be "Laser Eyes" because it isn't singular in on page 137 and "Laser Eye" isn't mentioned in the rest of the SNES Player's Guide, or alternatively, going with Nintendo Power's "Pyramid of Power" when both SNES manuals use "pyramid". To me, it just seems like an oversight on the part of the SNES Player's Guide. If not "turtle", "Turtle" would be a decent compromise since it does have official usage (for all of Prima's faults, it does get some things right, like Laser Eye, Mimic and Flyceratops). Though if you still feel strongly about it, maybe ask Results May Vary if he wants to be our tiebreaker? Anyway, I was just throwing out a naming idea, since it would be nice if the SNES page had a little more consistency with other pages, which I suppose will be more GBA-focused. LTL (talk) 21:40, 12 August 2020 (MDT)

Re:Winder

Winder is in page 25 of the Phantom Houglass guide. By the way, given they share same graphics as fire bar and act similarly to Spark, do you think they were consciously named after the Mario enemies? LTL (talk) 08:01, 23 June 2020 (MDT)

Re:Mighty Dark Nuts & Bolts

Mighty Darknut is the one from The Wind Waker, right? According to the Zelda Legends text dump, they actually have the same name as regular Darknuts in the Japanese version, ala Wizzrobe. That's why the English figurine description states "Some wear capes". Like other enemies in Hyrule Encyclopedia, page 183 does have separate entries for the color variants (red with The Legend of Zelda, Oracle, Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, and Twilight Princess, and white with The Minish Cap). In Cadence of Hyrule, Red Darknut is 「タートナック（赤）」 (Tartnuc (aka)) in Japanese. LTL (talk) 21:40, 12 August 2020 (MDT)

Re:ZW's TP'd translations

I mentioned above that GlitterBerri noted Aeralfos' Japanese name in Hyrule Historia, 「リザルナーグ」 (Rizarunāgu), is different than the one that was on Zelda Wiki, 「ガーナイル」 (Gānairu). It seems they restructured their translations since then, but as it turns out, Hyrule Encyclopedia claims that usual enemy (the Hyrule Castle and Cave of Ordeals variation, which also appears in Tri Force Heroes) is the former on page 211 and the City in the Sky enemy (which also appears in Hyrule Warriors) is the latter on page 166. The English version sloppily merged them. I have a few ideas on how some names may be iffy though. It could be that Zelda Wiki at the time simply referenced fan-names from Japanese online sources like Wikipedia, believing that they must be right just because they're Japanese, or that they weren't as meticulous at some of them. My other thought is a little bit messy, so hopefully it'll make sense. After this reply a short while back, I asked Mister Wu if he knew about unofficial Japanese guides, and he basically told me that the only Japanese guides you can really trust are the ones that very explicitly credit Nintendo; a Nintendo copyright by itself is not enough, presumably because it can merely be attributed to the game that guide is based on rather than the overall published product. That makes it trickier to discern unofficial and official guides than I originally thought, although Shogakukan is always a safe bet in regards to Nintendo. Incidentally, that also calls into question the Link's Awakening Futabasha guide, and if the artwork should even be here if its officiality can't be verified - although for what it's worth, the Hyrule Encyclopedia bestiary bibliography includes it, so would you say it now counts by association regardless? What I'm getting at is that Zelda Wiki members may have referenced a Japanese guide they assumed was official. In the case of Aeralfos, I'm honestly not sure if they really are wholly separate; in Twilight Princess, the only physical difference as far as I know is that "Garnyle" has a helmet that "Lizalnarg" does not, but in Tri Force Heroes, "Lizalnarg" has the "Garnyle" helmet anyway; Super Aeralfos is 「スーパーリザルナーグ」 (Sūpā Rizarunāgu) on page 178 of Hyrule Encyclopedia. Additionally, E_AERALFOS is its internal name in Hyrule Warriors and is Aeralfos and SuperAeralfos are its internal name in Tri Force Heroes, the former admittedly using many English localizations for other filenames but the latter noticeably standing out. That aside, Hyrule Encyclopedia has the following: 「爆弾虫」 (Bakudanchū) for the Bombling enemy on page 192 and 「ポケット爆弾虫」 (Pokketo Bakudanchū) for its tool state on page 134, 「デクレシア」 (Dekureshia) for Deku Like on page 188, and 「ババレシア」 (Babareshia) for Big Baba on page 193. For what it's worth, it doesn't mention any relation between Bombling and Bombchu, and the Big Baba description mentions Deku Baba and Deku Like. Of course, it's also possible that Zelda Wiki simply confused Big Baba with Big Deku Baba and someone just transliterated the English name of Deku Like into Japanese. LTL (talk) 21:40, 12 August 2020 (MDT)

Re:Fourth Sword

Are you playing the Anniversary Edition? It's possible that the enemies were moved or removed, change depending on the number of players, or maybe it's unlucky RNG. Hyrule Encyclopedia does show Four Swords as appearances for the Wisps (163), Wizrobe (163; mistakenly the same picture as Fire?), Fire Wizrobe (164), and Ice Wizrobe (161). Stalfos is indeed grouped with Stalchild (180), and the English version actually keeps this one, presumably because the GBA Player's Guide didn't name them. Having said that, I would prefer the information be kept in the Stalfos article for now, at least until the Shogakukan name can be confirmed, because the bestiary bibliography includes some guides that may not be official and Nintendo Dream has their own errors - for starters, they consider Kelvin (174) to be completely separate from Chain Chomp (213), despite the fact that the Kamigami no Triforce Shogakukan guide considers it the same, both in the interview and right in its character catalogue description: 「俗にいうワンワン。」 (Popularly known as Wanwan.). This might've been overlooked because their bibliography lists multiple other Kamigami no Triforce guides. LTL (talk) 21:40, 12 August 2020 (MDT)

I scoured through various YouTube longplays for a sign of them, and I found one instance of the Wizrobe (incidentally, on the last video before I would have called it quits). I haven't seen the Wisp anywhere, but that may be because I skimmed through. I'll have to assume that since the Wizrobe exists, the Wisp must be there as well, albeit as an obscenely rare encounter. If it makes any difference, the videos I saw were of two players for the GBA version and four players for the 3DS version. I've originally played it as three players, but it's been so long that I shouldn't rely on my memory. LTL (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

I'm afraid I have bad news on that front: this article mentions the "unofficial guides by Famitsu and Nintendo Dream..." Recently, to make sure I come across official merchandise, I ask the owner of the book if they can confirm it for me by looking at the credits. Of course, sometimes they get confused and think I've referring to counterfeit merchandise, so I make sure to specify the Nintendo license or other declarative statement. Unfortunately, Nintendo copyrights aren't always indicative of this as I once thought, but at least Shogakukan is a safe bet. I'm considering getting the official guide bundled with the Super Mario 64 Shogakukan guide if it's possible, unless you want dibs on that (not a problem either way). LTL (talk) 14:02, 20 October 2020 (MDT)

Well, the Prima guide displays the red Wisp, but in terms of Hyrule Encyclopedia, both have separate entries on page 163. It seems to say basically the same thing as the English version, not really mentioning any differences between games. LTL (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2021 (MST)

Re:Harla

To be honest, I don't know. I always assumed Jalhalla (ジャイ・ハーラ) was a corruption of Valhalla (ヴァルハラ), but I'm not sure if that seems right. It could just be a nonsense word, though from the Japanese name, 「ジャイ」 (Jai) seems short for 「ジャイアント」 (Jaianto, Giant). You could say something along the lines of "Jai is likely from the English word "giant" and Hāra is possibly from etc." EDIT: Another possibility is that, since Twilight Princess is treated as a parallel to The Wind Waker, Stallord began as an alternate Jalhalla before being heavily redesigned Helmasaur-style. LTL (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

Re:Deku and Scrubs

I think so. Terms like "Zora tribe", "Goron tribe", "Rito tribe", etc. also show up on occasion, and it seems to be splitting hairs to split those. LTL (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2020 (MDT)

I'll also add that 「デクナッツ」 / "Deku Scrub" shows up a number of times within the context of Link's form and members of the tribe in the Japanese and English Majora's Mask text dumps at Zelda Legends. LTL (talk) 12:50, 10 September 2020 (MDT)

Re:Moblin

Well, in Nintendo Land, Ttl_St_Zld_Moriburin.szs archive contains four models within its gsys.bfres: Zld_Hayaburin, Zld_Moriburin, Zld_MoriburinShield, and Zld_MoriburinSword. The latter two are just the wooden shield and sword (though it's more of a club?), but the former two are what Gamepedia calls a "Quick Moblin" and then the basic Moblin. There's also Ttl_St_Zld_Dekaburin.szs containing three models within its gsys.bfres: Zld_Dekaburin (big Moblin boss), Zld_DekaburinShield (metal shield), and Zld_DekaburinSword (spiked club). I passed up a chance to get the Nintendo Land Prima guide, but if I see it again I can double-check. I don't know about Link's Awakening Switch, but I do know that The Models Resource sometimes leaves the names raw instead of renaming files depending on the upload, and it seems like the Moblin is under EnemyMoriblinSword and EnemyMoriblinSpear, but the Boarblin is similarly under EnemyMoblinSword and EnemyMoblinSpear. It could be accurate, given some other files, but it's pretty odd (though I'm inclined to believe it's accurate because those are also the names used in A Link Between Worlds' ActorProfile.szs along with EnemyMoriblinSpearShooter but I'm getting ahead of myself). In Hyrule Warriors, most of the "Captain" enemies are marked as "_CAPTAIN", but the Moblins are split between E_MOBLIN.bin and E_MOBLIN_B.bin (which looks like the dark variant judging from other filenames - incidentally, Dark Link is apparently F_BLACK_LINK.bin, meaning it may have gone under that name before going with the Ocarina of Time name). Anyway, to answer your question about A Link Between Worlds, it's 「モリブリン（剣盾）」 (Moriblin (sword/shield)) on page 220 and 「モリブリン（投槍）」 (Moriblin (spear shooter)) and 「モリブリン（槍盾）」 (Moriblin (spear/shield)) on page 221 of the Shogakukan guide; the A Link Between Worlds Prima guide just mentions that there are Blue and Red types of Moblins carrying a variety of weapons on page 42 (and also doesn't split them by name when Moblin is mentioned again on page 149), and the Tri Force Heroes Prima guide mentions the Spear Throwing Moblin on page 12. Personally, if the Guards are separated by weapon type, it makes sense on paper to do the same to Moblins, but it might cause some weird overlaps. I do find it odd that Hyrule Warriors introduces normal Moblins in the Skyward Sword style, which only had shielded types. Hyrule Encyclopedia also organizes it pretty strangely: page 209 groups together the sword/shield and solo sword Moblins from the Oracle games, the spear/shield Moblin from A Link Between Worlds, and both shielded Moblins from Skyward Sword (labeled as 「モリブリン（木の盾） / モリブリン（鉄の盾）」, though only Metal Shield Moblin is pictured, which mistakenly caused Zelda Encyclopedia to leave out Wooden Shield Moblin altogether); the previous page depicts the sword/shield Moblin from A Link Between Worlds and Spear Throwing Moblin from Tri Force Heroes among regular Moblins. LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

Re:Parasites

For what it's worth, they have separate entries next to each other on page 170 of Hyrule Encyclopedia. I think they can be considered different since they are seemingly extensions of the bosses, which are separate, although Dexivines make appearances outside its original dungeon, unlike Parasitic Tentacles. LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

Re:Shroudley

"Shrouded Stalfos" and "Sword Stalfos" are respectively 「ドクロナイト」 (Dokuro Naito, Skull Knight) and 「ドクロナイトソード」 (Dokuro Naito Sōdo, Skull Knight Sword) on page 190 of Hyrule Encyclopedia, with no mention of Stalfos in their descriptions. Oddly enough, they are 「スタルローブ（矢）」 (Sutarurōbu (ya), Stalrobe (arrow)) and 「スタルローブ（剣）」 (Sutarurōbu (ken), Stalrobe (sword)) in Futabasha guides or 「スタルローブ」 (Sutarurōbu, Stalrobe) and 「スタルローブ（剣士）」 (Sutarurōbu (kenshi), Stalrobe (swordman)) in the Keibunsha guide. Might this also suggest a relation to the skull-faced Wizzrobes from A Link to the Past? My guess is that the name was simply changed for the Oracle games. Hyrule Encyclopedia does not mention alternate names for them, but it's really not complete on that front. LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

Update: Here is the Japanese Bottle Grotto hint (the Switch version is the same with some negligible punctuation difference). The English version is "First, defeat the imprisoned Pols Voice, Last, Stalfos..." (Switch: "First, defeat the imprisoned Pols Voice. Last, the skeletal Stalfos..."). Note that in the Japanese version, they call the Pols Voice 「オオミミノマモノ」 (Ōmiminomono, Big-Eared One) and the [Shrouded] Stalfos 「ドクロナイト」 (Dokuro Naito, Skull Knight). So the origin of the name was in Link's Awakening all along, although it's uncertain if it was intended to be their actual name in that game, but the English version and later Japanese materials seem to think so. I guess we take it at that. That brings my attention to the Switch version. I think they just added "skeletal" in the hint so first-time players know which one is Stalfos, but the name they used in earlier guides, Shrouded Stalfos, seems like it would have conveyed the same message. That tells me they probably don't have the name Shrouded Stalfos anymore. Should we adjust it to "Stalfos (shrouded)" for the in-game context of Link's Awakening? LTL (talk) 19:21, March 10, 2021 (MST)

That works. LTL (talk) 19:06, March 14, 2021 (MDT)

OK, I accidentally stumbled upon something very cool the other day, and I'm floored that no one seems to have discovered it so far. Switch hacking is usually a little outside of my comfort zone, but the other day I've managed to crack open the Link's Awakening remake. First off, to answer the question about that enemy: the model filenames in region_common/actor are EnemyStalfosGreen, EnemyStalfosOrange, EnemyStalKnightSpear, EnemyStalKnightSword, and EnemyMasterStalfon (as a side note, continuing from this, the Moblins are indeed EnemyMoblinSpear, EnemyMoblinSword, EnemyMoriblinSpear, EnemyMoriblinSword, and EnemyBossblin); beyond filenames, however, there's a file in regionUS/USen/message called Glossary that contains text strings for every location, item, character, and enemy of the game! My first thought was that the figures were going to be a lot more comprehensive like they were in The Wind Waker and The Minish Cap before cutting them down to most of the Mario enemies, but that doesn't seem to be the case because the Mario figures are also listed among the items. Maybe you were originally allowed to edit enemy placement when arranging chambers? Either way, it's otherwise an entirely unused list of the game's enemies with an interesting mix of Player's Guide, Dreamer Art Book, and miscellaneous/unpublished labels. Note that this doesn't include things like Beamos or Podoboo, which the game apparently considers objects instead of enemies. Anyway, the name for Shrouded Stalfos and Sword Stalfos is the same in the English glossary, and in the Japanese equivalent within regionJP/JPjp/message, it's 「ドクロナイト」 and 「ドクロナイト・ソード」 for the record. I'm going to share the rest when I get a chance. LTL (talk) 07:30, March 19, 2021 (MDT)

Re:Keeleon

The Japanese name is correct, as it appears on Page 212 of the Kamigami no Triforce 2 Shogakukan guide. It's called a Clione internally in both games. With that, notice クリオーネ (Kuriōne) and ネオリーク (Neorīku) are almost palindromes. And now that I think about it, I just realized that the English name is also a play on clione. It's possible Leevers were in mind, but it seems very much to be its own thing. LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

Sure thing! Also adding in case it's of interest that while Keeleon and Fire Keeleon share the same model with different textures in Tri Force Heroes', the game's ActorProfile.szs has an entry for the latter as EnemyFireClione (and EnemyFirePawn for fiery Hardhat Beetle) just like how A Link Between Worlds handles Mold(w)orm/Swamola and its fire variant. LTL (talk) 10:27, 30 December 2020 (MST)

Re:"Monblin"

Page 204 of Hyrule Encyclopedia indeed has that Ocarina of Time Moblin as 「ボスブリン」 along with the Great Moblin from the Oracle games; page 166 has the Link's Awakening King Moblin as 「オヤブリン」 along with the Big Blin from Spirit Tracks. LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

Where Wallmasters Fall

While browsing TCRF, I noticed that the early Wall Master model is named zelda_wm in the iQue source files. This piqued my interest, so I looked into it. While Data Crystal indicates ovl_En_Wallmas and object_wallmaster being related filenames, Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D show the filename of the final "Fallmaster" enemy being zelda_wm2 - in the former, this is a .zar file (.gar.lzs in the latter) that contains three .cmb models (fallmaster, floormaster, and shadow_f_model) and twelve .csab animations that all start with the prefix "wm". This basically clinches to me that Fallmaster and Floormaster are derivative of Wallmaster, despite the original being cut out of Ocarina of Time. The only thing against this is that Hyrule Encyclopedia's entry for Fallmaster (198) indicates to also see Wallmaster (164), Key Master (169), Zant's Hand (181), and Floormaster (201), and vice versa, implying that they are all derivative of Fallmaster. So, I'm proposing the following in light of this: original Wallmaster as the parent species of "Fallmaster" and Floormaster, with "Fallmaster" as the parent species of Zant's Hand and Key Master. What do you think? LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

I forgot what Key Master's behavior is like since I admittedly have little experience with the DS games, so I think that can be arranged. So then, this addendum: original Wallmaster as the parent species of "Fallmaster" and Floormaster, with "Fallmaster" as the parent species of Zant's Hand and Floormaster as the parent species of Key Master? LTL (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2020 (MST)

Kindred Stal Foes?

I'm unsure if you are at all familiar with the Blaster Master series, but it came to my attention recently that a lot of boss names were changed for no good reason when switching between Japanese and other languages in Blaster Master Zero and its sequel, despite the original names already being in English and the localized versions also having Japanese transcriptions. Some of these, like changing the identity of the Mutant Lord from Goez to "Underworld Lord" (eh?), ruin some of the plot connections to the original game, Chō Wakusei Senki MetaFight. It turns out there's a familiar reason for these unneeded changes. You see, most bosses from Blaster Master Zero are returning from MetaFight/Blaster Master (mostly having remixed battles but the same bosses nonetheless), and the name changes correspond to fan-names that have been floating around online since at least 2000 (I've traced them to this GameFAQs walkthrough but they may be even older). Internet Archive was very helpful in leading me to this conclusion. Anyway, to get to the point, there's a boss called "SkeleVenom" when set to Japanese but "Skeleton Boss" when set to other languages (one of the few things that wasn't a fan-name, being a callback to the Plutonium Boss from the NES localization, along with not-Fred). If you look carefully, you'll notice that the Japanese for SkeleVenom actually reads 「スタルベノン」 (SutaruBenon, StalVenom). "Skele" makes sense in rebooted Zero form, but the original version (seen on the NES game's front cover) looks more alien-like than particularly skeletal. I suspect that rendering "Stal" to "Skele" may have been another thing taken from fan circles, or maybe it happened to be romanized that way in a Japanese guidebook. Taking this all into account, do you think Stal/SkeleVenom is a reference to Stalfos worth adding to the list of The Legend of Zelda references in video games? LTL (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (MST)

It didn't hit me it until after I added the information to the article that I definitely confused ケ (ke) with タ (ta) due to the English translation and warning graphics partially obscuring the Japanese text on-screen, but on the other hand, I also realized how "Stal" (スタル) is a corruption of "skeleton" (スケルトン, sukeruton) and "skull" (スカル, sukaru), which explains Stal being a head. LTL (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2021 (MST)

Re:Gibfos

Makes sense considering that Gidbo can be burned away into either depending on the game so it always seemed like a sort of "missing link" to me. LTL (talk) 10:27, 30 December 2020 (MST)

Speaking of Stalfos, do you think Stalfos Warrior was intended to be another name for the similar-themed Stalfos Knight (also considering it has had more than one Japanese name), or are they different enough? LTL (talk) 10:03, 31 December 2020 (MST)

I guess it's another one of those things that would safer to leave as-is unless something ever comes along. Regarding Boarblins: I have a hunch that the Japanese name was changed as well if filenames from The Models Resource are accurate - the original name is too plain if the other Moblins are now also pigs after all - but I'm not sure where to look for that since the Japanese version of the Dreamer Edition artbook doesn't list names. LTL (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2021 (MST)

Re:Creating a Champion

I don't have Master Works, so Creating a Champion is one of the post-Historia books I know about the least in terms of accuracy. I do know that apparently a page or two of certain concept art is missing from the Dark Horse release, which may or may not be due to hinting at upcoming elements in the BotW sequel. It also has a lot of the same staff members from Encyclopedia and previous books, but it adds Ian Flynn of all people as one of the fact checkers (maybe "Encyclo-speed-ia" practice). However, it doesn't have a disclaimer similar to the previous books, like the one basically stating that the timeline is subject to change in Historia or the one about taking certain unknown liberties with lore in Encyclopedia. Hopefully, that wasn't one of the things missing in the English version, because for that reason, I think it's okay to cover it. (I was also very pleasantly surprised to find out Cadence of Hyrule was able to get even more monsters they missed the first time when I started a Symphony of the Mask playthrough recently.) LTL (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2021 (MST)

Inactivity warning

This is RMV. I am warning you that I am inactive for a few days due to a terrible windstorm in my area that caused a terrible power outage. Feel free to tell this to the rest. Thank you. 172.58.44.210 15:55, 14 January 2021 (MST)

Thanks for mentioning, passing it along. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2021 (MST)

Re:Almos

It is indeed 「ムジューン」 on page 207 of Hyrule Encyclopedia and it doesn't mention Armos at all. Maybe consider it related to Armos Knight since the sprites still have a resemblance, but if you ask me, the helmet design also makes it look like it could be an enlarged version of the Darknut/Soldier enemy. LTL (talk) 10:24, 15 February 2021 (MST)

Re:torch

I'm partial to "Blazing Watch Tower" but like "Face Lamp" I'm unsure if it sounds right on its own. "Torch (obstacle)" seems to make the most sense to me if there's a source for it, considering they look identical to the object. I guess it would be split between "torch (obstacle)", "torch (object)", and "torch (item)"? There's also a hint that seems to refer to the "Lamp" in the Link's Awakening text dump: "Dive under where torchlight beams do cross..." LTL (talk) 10:24, 15 February 2021 (MST)

Another note here: in the Oracle of Seasons/Ages Player's Guide, the one-eyed lighting object is called a torch on pages 49 and 51 but the fireball-shooting Stone/Eyeclops Statue-looking thing is called a Face Lamp (which may be an Eye Guard situation despite Face Lamp below). LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

Regional English

So I'm not sure if you knew about this, but a while back on Mario Wiki, we used to have a "first come, first serve" basis on regional English as a whole (for example, Super Mario Strikers was Mario Smash Football because that was its first English title, karts and other names in Mario Kart Wii would use the PAL versions, etc.). The rationale for this was because the wiki had an international reach, but at some point, it was decided to go with North America over other regions in general. I was wondering what you thought about possibly going back to this idea here on Triforce Wiki? Note that I think the only game that would be affected by this right now would be Skyward Sword, wherein the North American version slightly changed the codenames of Scervo and Dreadfuse for some reason. LTL (talk) 10:24, 15 February 2021 (MST)

Re:Boots

I knew about the boots in general, but I meant more about a single "boots" item. There's going to be some overlap with the idea of some items and weapons in general versus a particular item of the same name, such as swords, shields, and arrows. I've been wondering what the best way to present that information would be. I was thinking of having a section for example of the specific, regular "sword/shield" equipment, and then divide it with a separate section about the basic-level ones in other games. In the case of the original boots item from The Adventure of Link though, it got renamed in Hyrule Warriors to "Roc Boots" in English (there are several others that got renamed too, like the "sail" from The Wind Waker is now the "Windfall Sail" in English). So maybe have an article for Roc Boots, which would cover the original Zelda II boots and mention the Hyrule Warriors version, and have a separate article for boots in general such as the gear in Ocarina of Time, like it seems we'll do with tunics? But then, would the "Boots" weapon type for Linkle be a third article? I was thinking the Hyrule Warriors weapon types all get their own articles since they don't really classify as either. Hope that makes sense. LTL (talk) 19:21, March 10, 2021 (MST)

I'm kind of partial to Zelda Dungeon's approach or something like it (though things like Horse/Epona and Master Sword don't need to split). The weapons of the same type all essentially play the same as each other, mainly just with changed stats. There's also a lot of original weapons in the roster, and keeping that all on the same page would be more convenient (and theoretically prevent the related items from flooding in the infobox, which would especially look strange with some of the 8-Bit weapons). There's also some contradictions with how some (non 8-Bit) things are classified; for example, the Giant's Knife and Biggoron's Sword are just considered "swords" in Ocarina of Time, but they're their own "Giant Blade" category in Hyrule Warriors, to say nothing of the Rapier and Scimitars (incidentally, there's no single "Sword" category in the game, with the closest being Link's "Hylian Sword" and Toon Link's "Light Sword" which have the same name in Japanese, 片手剣 - one-handed sword - despide having a different selection and moveset). For already-established weapons, we can use {{main}} in the Hyrule Warriors section to direct to the weapon type for more information, and I imagine the main articles would keep the names used in the core series since the Hyrule Warriors counterparts would be be listed seperately (basically treating the recent Roc Boots, Windfall Sail, Ancient Spinner, and Sand Wand as one-offs like the 8-Bit series). Thoughts? LTL (talk) 19:06, March 14, 2021 (MDT)

Re:Young Link

Makes sense, "child" (子供) seems to be how developers distinguish from adult/other models, which is in Young Link's Japanese name (こどもリンク). The name "Young Link" also definitely predates Melee as it shows up in the BradyGAMES guide on page 65 ("This conversation with Sheik will give you an idea about how to alternate between Young Link and Adult Link."). That's not all. The English N64 manual calls the two forms of Link "Child Link" and "Adult Link" several times such as page 34, which on Japanese equivalent 33 is, you guessed it, 「こどもリンク」 and 「おとなリンク」 - the former has been revised as "Young Link" on page 31 of the GameCube manual and page 19 of the Collector's Edition manual but the latter is the same in them. So, Child/Young Link and Adult Link were always their names, there was just some confusion along the way. Another side note: in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Young Link is listed as appearing in The Legend of Zelda in English (somewhat loosely justified in the trophy description), but in Japanese, it instead lists Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I'm thinking we can expand Young Link and possibly Adult Link as other forms of Link for the purposes of Ocarina of Time at least (Majora's Mask may be trickier, maybe just direct to the main article) - that leaves us with Toon Link and Toon Zelda but I'd just go the Cranky Kong route with them. LTL (talk) 19:21, March 10, 2021 (MST)

The Low of Lowder

According to former Nintendo game play counselor Greg Lowder, someone took a dig at him by naming the Lowder enemy in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link after him. Now, my initial reaction when reading this is that it must be a coincidence since 「ローダー」 can already feasibly transliterate as "Lowder" and it makes sense since you have to strike at it low, but with respect to Lowder, should we incorporate it in the article? If we do, we should probably update the meaning of the Japanese name, especially considering he joined after the Japanese release. I'm drawing a blank on what else the Japanese name was supposed to be, if it wasn't just some nonsense word - maybe "Loader", as in potentially another programming joke? That'd probably make Aruroda something of an in-joke (does "low" even make sense in regards to Aruroda?). Speaking of which, semi-related: on page 14 of Nintendo Power Volume 5, on to the Great Palace, it says, "Coming to a cave, you will find the Lowder and Acheman monsters which you defeat using your sword and Fire Magic." Prima Games' Playing With Power: Nintendo NES Classics guide caught that it doesn't describe or picture Lowder and revised it to, "Coming to a cave, Link encounters many challenging foes, such as Arurodas and Achemen, creatures he defeats using his Sword and Fire magic." That might be worth mentioning on the Aruroda page as well. LTL (talk) 19:06, March 14, 2021 (MDT)

Nintendo Power was owned by Nintendo of America for a long time, then was sold to Future Publishing in 2007. Wikipedia vaguely claims there was a period where they operated independently, but I'm not sure if that's true. The current podcast version is hosted on the Nintendo of America website and YouTube channel so I assume they got the rights back to it at some point but I don't know the specifics. Good catch on the Myu description, though it's also possible some coworker switched the names before print as a joke. I checked the game regarding Aruroda (BTW "Auroda" was a typo), and just like Lowder, Link has to kneel or Down Thrust to strike it lower than upright position, so the current etymology still works. Maybe include it as trivia while noting that the Japanese name still translates to Lowder? I'll leave it to you. LTL (talk) 07:30, March 19, 2021 (MDT)

Shard of Stone of Agony

I saw that Stone of Agony and Shard of Agony are separate on the OOT template, and I was wondering, why not just cover them in the same article? They have the same exact role, just with the 3DS version being updated to not use the N64 Rumble Pak, and what appears to be the same filename, shakestone within object_gi_map. It just seems to be not dissimilar to splitting the redesigned Garo's Mask. LTL (talk) 07:30, March 19, 2021 (MDT)

I suppose. Here's another question then: what about the stone slab fragment and stone beak? I noticed that only one of them is mentioned in the LA template, and I also wasn't sure if you planned to have them in the same article or not. For what it's worth, while Hyrule Encyclopedia gives the Stone of Agony and Shard of Agony separate entries (pointing to each other) on pages 138 and 131, respectively, page 122 gives stone beak its own entry but simply redirects stone slab fragment to it. LTL (talk) 23:50, March 21, 2021 (MDT)

Inconsistent capitalization

Sometime around The Minish Cap, in-game capitalization became rather inconsistent in regards to items and equipment (though it also affects enemies on occasion - for example, Q. Bumpkin's dialog calls the "sand crab" lowercase in the GBA version of A Link to the Past despite guides since using "Sand Crab"). Usually, what happens is that most dialog (including text upon obtaining it) renders certain things in lowercase, but when it is in your inventory the thing becomes capitalized. Sometimes this affects things that were always capitalized in previous games, such as wooden sword / Wooden Sword and red potion / Red Potion. In the Link's Awakening remake, despite much of the text being from the Game Boy game, this newer style is utilized, so you get "Roc's feather" when obtaining it but "Roc's Feather" in the inventory like the original game, but "secret medicine" in dialog like the original game but "Secret Medicine" in the inventory. It seems to be random which items are affected too. I could get into a lot more examples throughout various games, or how spinoffs like Hyrule Warriors favor capitalization while Cadence of Hyrule favors lowercase, but to get to the point, I was wondering how this gets tackled. Presuming we go with the most recent game, should we treat capitalization in the inventory like a stylistic choice and go with how things are called in most of the other game text? Should we try to preserve this nuance, i.e. capitalize the article title but use lowercase elsewhere (though I imagine that getting convoluted pretty easily)? Or try some other approach? LTL (talk) 23:50, March 21, 2021 (MDT)

I'm beginning to think that, for simplicity's sake, it would have to be far simpler to use the general inventory space capitalization instead of the lowercase dialog form from some games. It would be just too confusing to keep track of otherwise for organizational purposes. These rules aren't even internally consistent - in Skyward Sword, for instance, the Sacred Water is referred to in both capital and lowercase depending on the text box. Maybe lowercase instances should still be addressed though, like as an aside in the section? LTL (talk) 19:06, May 23, 2021 (MDT)

The Human Hylian

I wrote about this on the Hylian article, but according to the game and manual of A Link to the Past, Hylians in that game were considered the predecessors of the people that currently inhabit Hyrule and elsewhere in the world, and modern descendants of Hylians no longer call themselves Hylian. This is despite stating that Hylians were physically distinguishable by their ears, which is a trait these "post-Hylians" still have. In fact, the game uses "human" several times, and really, most of the games do (I'm not sure where the "Hylians aren't human" misconception came from); the only game to use the word "Hylian" exclusively is Ocarina of Time, which is approximately the right timeframe. Twilight Princess is another one that refers to the race as "Hylian" in the script, but is far outnumbered by instances of "human" and seems intended to be somewhere between the two points in time. Then there's Skyward Sword. This causes a few issues: there's a pre- and post-Hylian history, yet characters like Link, Zelda and Malon are listed as "Hylian" in their infobox, which isn't always technically true. There are also characters like Tingle, who could potentially be Hylian sometimes except the word "Hylian" never even shows up in Majora's Mask, not to mention he's from Termina. Maybe a better phrase in the infobox is something like "Human (of Hylian descent)" or something to that effect? I don't think Gerudos and (presumably) Sheikah have this problem, but that may be because we don't see enough of them (characters like Din the oracle or potentially Groose could conceivably be related to Gerudo, but they definitely oughta be chalked down as human to be safe). Also, instead of unofficial(?) terms like Terminian or Lorulean, we could cover humans outside of Hyrule in a broader human article. And I wonder if species is the right word for Hylian or Gerudo; Ocarina of Time uses race (although also in reference to Kokiri, Gorons and Zoras), so perhaps amend the character infobox to include that parameter? Unsure which is best. LTL (talk) 23:50, March 21, 2021 (MDT)

An addendum first because there's something I overlooked: the SNES Player's Guide for A Link to the Past, with the added lore throughout, sometimes refers to the modern descendants as Hylians. It also uses the term "Hyrulian" more times to refer to modern inhabitants of Hyrule (this was revised later as "Hyrulean" and supposedly applies broadly to other sapient species but the original context looks to be Hylian-descended humans - need to look into in-game Japanese instances to get a better grasp). The GBA Player's Guide loses references to Hylian but keeps Hyrulian. Page 93 of Hyrule Historia also goes with the notion that the Hylians are no longer around by that name. I believe Breath of the Wild uses Hylian again though, and if so and it's on the same timeline as A Link to the Past, that suggests the descendants adopt the name of their ancestors at some point. Really though, I'm flexible as long as humans aren't considered just the round-eared ones, and sometimes ears aren't always visible so it just becomes a guessing game. I have yet to check my copy to see which one is accurate, but Hyrule Historia states that Hylia/Zelda's descendants started the Royal Family, and the GlitterBerri translation claims elsewhere that "those who share the roots" became known as Hylians, which gave me the impression that the Hylians are humans from Skyloft who settled on the surface afterwards, but the official translation instead writes that Hylians in general descended from her. Anyway, I think implied characters should work for the civilizations we only hear about, but unsure about including Mudora in there since it's never been explained if Mudora was a group, a person, or something else. It's like having entries for Somaria or Byrna, there isn't enough to go off of and it's too vague. LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

Link's Awakening (2019) internal filename/glossary comments

As promised, I've compiled the enemy glossary from the remake of Link's Awakening over here. Some observations about the glossary and filenames, in no particular order...

• First off, the new names (excluding those also in the Dreamer Art Book) are as follows: K.K. Sniper (Monkey), Spear Moblin, Piranha (fish), Sword Boarblin, Spear Boarblin, Winged Octorok (Flying Octorok), Creep (Big Keese / Battle Bat), Green Zol, Red Zol, Mini Zol (Gel), Bush Beetle, Stone Beetle, Skull Beetle, Dacto (Raven), Mini-Moldorm (Mini Moldorm), Voidmaster (Vacuum Mouth), Hollow Mimic (Arm-Mimic), Red Bombite, Green Bombite, Sword Darknut, Spear Darknut, Green Stalfos, Orange Stalfos, Zirro (Bomber), Birky (Anti-Kirby), Ballereen (Star), Mini Angler (Angler Fry), Bonewing (Bone Putter), Green Goo Specter, Red Goo Specter, Green Hue Ball, Red Hue Ball, Blue Hue Ball (Karakoro / Orb Monster), Bomb Trooper (Mad Bomber), Giant Zol Shadow (Giant Gel), Agahnim Shadow (Agahnim's Shadow), Moldorm Shadow (Moldorm's Shadow), Ganon Shadow (Shadow of Ganon), Lanmola Shadow ("Lanmola"), and Death Shadow (DethI).
• The coconut-throwing K.K. Sniper is based on the name of K.K. Slider from Animal Crossing, whose Japanese/alternate name is also Totakeke, based on sound composer Kazumi Totaka.
• Mini Zol probably surprised me the most since most languages call it that, including Japanese. Taking a glance at the Japanese guides at Zelda Dungeon, it seems that only the Keibunsha guide mentions Gel in Zol's description on page 19, while the Futabasha guides do not mention the form Zol splits into by name. This might explain why the Player's Guide used one name to refer to both (albeit Gel), and why the Hyrule Encyclopedia entry of Gel skips Link's Awakening on page 174 (even though Oracle of Seasons/Ages is pictured). At the very least, Mini Zol makes it easier to remember which is which, and if nothing else, we now know which one is the parent species of the two.
• Nintendo of America insists that the Tail family is Moldorm while Nintendo of Europe mostly tries to retranslate it properly, although I'm not sure why the Italian name uses the Japanese word for tail.
• Voidmaster is named after Wallmaster (or is that Fall Master?) due to also transporting Link to the beginning of the dungeon. It sort of acts like its inverse; instead of falling onto Link, it tries to get Link to fall into it.
• It doesn't show up well in the table, but the "Zirro " strings in English and Dutch seem to have an extra space in its name. I get the impression that it might have read "Zirros" at one point but it was caught and hastily changed, or it could be a coincidence.
• Interesting that they caught that the "Soldiers" are Darknuts but had the "Mad Bomber" renamed after the Ball and Chain Trooper miniboss, in English at least.
• On page 29 of the original Futabasha guide, Turtle Rock (the monster, not the dungeon) was known as 「タートルロック」 (Tātoru Rokku). This is 「カメイワ」 (Kame Iwa) on page 129 of the Futabasha DX guide, matching the dungeon, which is used here.
• On page 130 of the Futabasha DX guide and page 187 of Hyrule Encyclopedia, the Japanese name of Dekudon / Stone Hinox is 「デクドン」 (Dekudon). In the remake, Avalaunch's Japanese name was updated to 「デグドン」 (Degudon). I was off about the Japanese name of Boarblin though.
• All those color variants for what was originally a colorless game.
• As you know, the name of the final boss is collectively the Shadows (or Shadow Nightmares), as seen in the Player's Guide, Japanese guides and page 178 of Hyrule Encyclopedia; in the remake, the Japanese name is given to the final "true" form. Individually, they were apparently nameless as Hyrule Encyclopedia only identifies the first three, including 「デクテール」 (Dekutēru) in contrast to Avalaunch. This might mean that the name of the Lanmola form is influenced by the original localization. Also, the filename indeed calls it EnemyShadowDethI while the Dutch name calls it Schaduw-Dethl.
• You might've noticed that the filenames are a mix of Japanese and English names. Many of these filenames seem to be before it was decided to relocalize some of the English names, so you get oddities like EnemyFlyingOctorok, EnemySoldierSword, EnemySoldierSpear, EnemyBonePutter and EnemyStoneHinox - in fact, this seemingly extends beyond the enemies, as there are others like NpcMadBatter, ItemSwordLv1 and ItemSwordLv2. This might also include singular EnemyGibdos since, like A Link to the Past, the original Link's Awakening Player's Guide only mentioned "Gidbos" by name (note that the filename used "Gibdo" in A Link Between Worlds and Tri Force Heroes).
• Likewise, I couldn't help but notice that some of the filenames are a little funny. For instance, the witch is NpcSyrup, and the Power Bracelet is ItemPowerBraceletLv1 and Powerful Bracelet is ItemPowerBraceletLv2. Then I also noticed that same of the filenames in region_common/audio/stream almost seem to be done by different people since it uses some rougher translations in its filenames such as "Marine" ("Marin" in region_common/actor), "Strange Forest" ("Mysterious Woods" in region_common/map), "Pot Cave" ("Bottle Grotto" in region_common/map - in fact, all of the names are the same there as the English ones except for Lv10ClothesDungeon.bntx), etc. If I didn't know any better, it looks like someone at GREZZO consulted a copy of Zelda Encyclopedia when cleaning up some of the common designations early on, but that's just a wild guess.
• Other things I found somewhat interesting regarding filenames: in region_common/actor, the Mini Bow-Wows are under NpcSmallBowWow (BowWow, NpcBowWow), and the Animal Village Zora is under NpcSecretZora (incidentally, its location is HiddenZoraHouse_01A in region_common/map, another sign that different sections had different people working on it). Also, the heart and Piece of Heart are ItemRecoveryHeart and ItemHeartPiece, names they only had in N64 games as far as I know. That brown (blue in DX) Bear Cub (子グマ) that listens to Marin in Animal Village is named NpcMoosh after a big blue bear in Oracle of Seasons/Ages - who knows why. In region_common/map, the inanimate Armos is under ArmosStatue. Additionally, it has this thing called KoopaStuff that looks like a decorative piece with a vague face.
• As for the other enemies and obstacles named in the Player's Guide that didn't appear in the text strings: NpcFox (Mutt/Fox), ObjBladeTrap (Blade Trap), EnemyBubble (Anti-Faerie), ObjDoshin (Mega Thwomp), ObjDosun (Spiked Thwomp), ObjKoton (Thwomp), EnemyGiantBubble (Giant Bubble), ObjFlameFountain (Flame Fountain), ObjDungeonFaceLamp / ObjHouseFaceLamp (Face Lamp, which the game considers "Lamps" in general), ObjOshin (Stone Elevator), ObjEyegoreFigure / ObjEyegoreSwitch (Eye Guard), ObjFlyingTile (Flying Tile), ObjBeamos (laser), ObjFallingRock (Boulder), and ObjPodoboo (Podoboo). For completion's sake, ObjGanonBat is Firebat / Blazing Bat, and PanelPanelFallMaster is Fall Master / Wallmaster and PanelShadowLink is Shadow Link.

One last thing - enemy texts aren't the only unused strings in the glossary. There's also something called "glossary_sequence" numbered 1 through 48 which is strange. For example, glossary_sequence16 is the text "Flying Rooster" (空飛ぶニワトリ) while glossary_sequence17 is "Flying Cucco" (空飛ぶコッコ), along with untranslated text; glossary_sequence5 has 「目覚めの使者」, glossary_sequence6 is 「使者」, glossary_sequence8 is 「神」, and glossary_sequence35 is 「敵の兵士」. Maybe used for debugging? Considering all the attention given to the Game Boy originals, I'm surprised the Switch remake hasn't shown up yet on TCRF, and I bet text strings are just scratching the surface. In any case, use this info as you see fit! LTL (talk) 23:50, March 21, 2021 (MDT)

I should point out, though, that this promotional video names the Darknuts properly but still calls the Bomb Trooper a Mad Bomber, if that matters to you. I did some more digging in some other files, but not much is nearly as striking as the enemy strings in Glossary.msbt so far. Scenario.msbt contains Lv1BossMoldorm and Lv2MiniBossKingMoblin and SubEvent.msbt contains BattleEvilOrb, further supporting my hypothesis that different developers worked on different sections and that decision to relocalize came relatively late. Something that did stick out to me was that UI.msbt contains ItemExplanation_PinkBra and ItemName_PinkBra and Warashibe.msbt contains GetBra, suggesting that the necklace (whose actor name is ItemNecklace.bfres) was planned to be uncensored at one point. In other news, I found out that Link's Awakening had Shogakukan guides and, more recently, an official Nintendo Dream guide. Needless to say, I'll get back to you regarding how those handle Mini Zol, the Thwomps, etc. LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

All right, so! I've since obtained a bunch of official Japanese guides in bulk, including the Shogakukan guides for Link's Awakening and Link's Awakening DX and the officially authorized Nintendo Dream guide for the Nintendo Switch remake. Firstly, to touch up on this: Shrouded Stalfos and Sword Stalfos are indeed 「ドクロナイト」 and 「ドクロナイト・ソード」 on page 105 and 106 of the original version's Shogakukan guide, respectively. However, their descriptions are very interesting. Here's a transcription of the first sentence of the former: 「口ーブをまとったガイコツ兵士。」 (A skeleton soldier wearing a robe.) And the latter: 「剣と盾を装備したスタルローブ。」 (A Stalrobe equipped with a sword and shield.) As the later guides were largely rewritten, there doesn't seem to be any reference to Stalrobe in those, so my guess is that the enemies were renamed shortly before publication. In DX Shogakukan, Stone Hinox is 「デクドン」 on page 103, while in the Nintendo Dream Switch guide, Avalaunch is 「デグドン」 on page 132 like the internal glossary. The earlier guides do not name Gel and only mention that Zol can split, but the Nintendo Dream guide indeed separates it as 「ミニゾル」 on page 127. The Shadow Nightmares do not have the individual names they have in the internal glossary; the original Shogakukan guide gives the names 「シャドー」 as a whole, 「ゾルの影」 for 1st, 「アグニムの影」 for 2nd, 「デグテールの影」 for 3rd, 「ガノンの影」 for 4th, and 「シャドー」 for 6th on page 110, skipping identifying the 5th form. DX Shogakukan just refers to the boss as 「シャドー」 as on page 90. The Nintendo Dream guide gives the name 「シャドー」 as a whole on page 123 and individually 「シャドー（第1形態）」 for 1st, 「シャドー（第2形態）」 for 2nd, 「シャドー（第3形態）」 for 3rd, 「シャドー（第4形態）」 for 4th, 「シャドー（第5形態）」 for 5th, and 「シャドー（第6形態）」 for 6th on page 133. The Thwomps remained basically the same across guides, with the Nintendo Dream guide adding furigana for Spiked Thwomp's name (「ひとつ目ドッスン」 on page 27) and ignoring the Thwomp as seen in Four Swords Adventures Shogakukan, although Stone Elevator doesn't seem to have a listed name and is only generically referred to as 「足場」 on page 55. I also noted the small Thwomp's description on page 108 of original Shogakukan: 「プチサイズのドツスン。」 (A petit-sized Thwomp.) And page 102 of DX Shogakukan: 「ひとつ目ドッスンのミニサイズ。」 (A Spiked Thwomp of mini size.) This description is missing from the Nintendo Dream guide, but it may indicate that Spiked Thwomp was supposed to be analogous to the Mario Thwomp instead of Mega Thwomp, though unsure how to organize that in regards to Mega Thwomp-looking Four Swords Adventures Thwomp. Finally, Beamos is still named 「ビム」 on page 27 of the Nintendo Dream guide despite the model filename indicating otherwise. If there's anything I missed or something you want to know, lemme know. I'm considering scanning the enemy and obstacle pages from my guides like I've done for Mario Wiki, but I wouldn't be able to get on it right away. LTL (talk) 19:06, May 23, 2021 (MDT)

Re:Key

Thanks, fixed it. Regarding Big/Boss Key though, A Link Between Worlds uses "Big Key" but filename for it is ObjKeyBoss (Small Key, ObjKeySmall), and the Japanese name seem to be sort of a cross between the two; I think if they were completely different, A Link Between Worlds would've used "ObjKeyBig" after the one from A Link to the Past (ObjMagicBottle is based on the Bottle Merchant's term for the bottle, suggesting the developers looked to A Link to the Past), and the fact that Small Key is pretty consistent suggests that Boss Key is just supposed to be another name for Big Key. There is also page 134 of Hyrule Encyclopedia which considers them all the same thing, though for some reason it forgets the Four Swords Adventures version, which had its carry concept reused for the DS games. It indicates that the name for the Twilight Princess one is 「ボス部屋のカギ」 and Spirit Tracks one is 「ボスカギ」 but I haven't checked those games to be sure. Again though, it isn't perfect: on page 124, it claims under 「小さなカギ」 that the key from The Adventure of Link was known as 「キー」 like the first game when that's actually not the case. Spirit Tracks' use of "Boss Key" and "big key" is another thing to keep in mind, since the Big Key in Twilight Princess was lowercase "big key" in dialog and both DS games used lowercase "small key" anyway. The simplest solution would be to merge them like the book did considering they're not even all that different, with the large chests only being relevant in their first appearance and, likely due to gameplay reasons, Four Swords Adventures. LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

Heads-up, Twilight Princess Shogakukan indicates it's 「ボス部屋のカギ」 on page 17 and Spirit Tracks Shogakukan shows 「ボスカギ」 or alternatively 「ビリビリカギ」 for the electrified version on page 29 (dunno about in-game equivalent of "big key" instances). LTL (talk) 19:06, May 23, 2021 (MDT)

Foreign game titles

By the way, what do you think of game titles in the foreign names template? I'm starting to think it looks clunky and confusing right now. Mario Wiki generally just uses English titles there, so perhaps switch to that. Also, since the official English version of Hyrule Historia uses BS The Legend of Zelda and BS The Legend of Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets, should we use those names instead of BS Zelda no Densetsu and BS Zelda no Densetsu: Inishie no Sekiban? LTL (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2021 (MDT)

De:Zelda's Adventure

Nice research! Personally, I would use English terms equivalent to the original Dutch words and mark it as conjecture. LTL (talk) 19:06, May 23, 2021 (MDT)

Power outage

Hi this is RMV. I've had a power outage for a while, and am using my smart phone to send you this message. Hopefully the power comes back soon on my end so that I can continue wiki editing. 172.56.42.90 07:47, October 25, 2021 (MDT)

File:HWDE group art.jpg

Really sorry to bother you, but I just found that you repost this from Koei's Twitter account (I repost this on Fandom in past too)... If the source of this artwork is correct, can I know if you have compressed this image? Just coz I compared the origin 3275x5324px image with the one you uploaded, and the ratio of the latter to the former does not match. Blhte (talk) 13:20, December 17, 2021 (UTC)

I uploaded via link from the Twitter image itself, pretty sure. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:28, December 17, 2021 (UTC)

It's true

I set my Discord account to deactivate in 2 weeks. All the servers are in good hands. Results May Vary (talk) 14:44, March 8, 2022 (UTC)

Archiving talk page

Your talk page is getting long, would you like to create an archive of it? Results May Vary (talk) 02:14, March 9, 2022 (UTC)